Winter Walking and Cycling

[tomh009]

A different time of day? A different day? We walked the trail there today, after 6 PM. I would say there were maybe 20 people coming the other way.

I did the same loop in the morning, around 8 AM, and there were maybe 10 people (not counting the dogs!).

EDIT: I can't speak for Waterloo Park, though.

[danbrotherston]

strangely enough Gazola has often supported it. 

He probably wants the sidewalks clear so he can partake in some winter cycling.

This definitely has been the running joke.

[ijmorlan]

This definitely has been the running joke.

Running would be easier if the City plowed the sidewalks.

[plam]

I wonder whether there is a paywall. Anyway here is a thread on Montreal snow removal pointing to a Canadian geographic article:

https://twitter.com/CanGeo/status/134653...27744?s=19

[danbrotherston]

I wonder whether there is a paywall. Anyway here is a thread on Montreal snow removal pointing to a Canadian geographic article:

https://twitter.com/CanGeo/status/134653...27744?s=19

Wow, that's a lot of money. I wonder what percentage is used to truck away snow...it's probably a lot, I'd bet the majority.

I wonder how much less money it would take to clear roads if every winter 2 lanes of any 4+ lane road and 1 lane of every 2-3 lane road was converted into snow storage instead of trucking.

Real fiscal conservatives would at a very minimum consider this option.

[plam]

I wonder whether there is a paywall. Anyway here is a thread on Montreal snow removal pointing to a Canadian geographic article:

https://twitter.com/CanGeo/status/134653...27744?s=19

Wow, that's a lot of money. I wonder what percentage is used to truck away snow...it's probably a lot, I'd bet the majority.

I wonder how much less money it would take to clear roads if every winter 2 lanes of any 4+ lane road and 1 lane of every 2-3 lane road was converted into snow storage instead of trucking.

Real fiscal conservatives would at a very minimum consider this option.

Probably most of it. The roads in the Montreal suburb where my parents live are pretty wide and could do with less width. On the other hand, areas like the Plateau Mont-Royal use streets as car storage and aren't that wide.

[danbrotherston]

Wow, that's a lot of money. I wonder what percentage is used to truck away snow...it's probably a lot, I'd bet the majority.

I wonder how much less money it would take to clear roads if every winter 2 lanes of any 4+ lane road and 1 lane of every 2-3 lane road was converted into snow storage instead of trucking.

Real fiscal conservatives would at a very minimum consider this option.

Probably most of it. The roads in the Montreal suburb where my parents live are pretty wide and could do with less width. On the other hand, areas like the Plateau Mont-Royal use streets as car storage and aren't that wide.

Well, we could also eliminate public car storage, I thought that went without saying . Ultimately, it's all speculation, no government would ever consider this, even a moderately progressive one, as they have, largely because much like sasquatch or big foot, fiscal conservatives are something that people think they see a lot, but is generally just a figment of their imagination.

[ijmorlan]

I wonder whether there is a paywall. Anyway here is a thread on Montreal snow removal pointing to a Canadian geographic article:

https://twitter.com/CanGeo/status/134653...27744?s=19

Wow, that's a lot of money. I wonder what percentage is used to truck away snow...it's probably a lot, I'd bet the majority.

I wonder how much less money it would take to clear roads if every winter 2 lanes of any 4+ lane road and 1 lane of every 2-3 lane road was converted into snow storage instead of trucking.

Real fiscal conservatives would at a very minimum consider this option.

I appreciated this tweet:

https://twitter.com/rail613/status/1346561532587606024

It makes a good point: we feel the need to clear 4 lanes or more on every major thoroughfare, but not the sidewalks. In other words, car drivers get not just the 2 lanes that are required to move a basic level of traffic, but the additional lanes required to move levels of traffic that would be much more efficiently moved on transit, while pedestrians have to rely on the inconsistent levels of service provided by numerous adjacent property owners.

Does anybody know if we’re still running a snowmelter in the Region lately? I know years ago they actually set up a gas-powered snow melt device in a parking lot off Father David Bauer Drive; I always thought it was ridiculous, because it is absolutely inconceivable that there isn’t a single vacant lot that could be used for the purpose, but the fact that we have so many oversized roads is another reason it’s crazy to melt snow — just narrow some streets over the winter and use that space.

[plam]

Probably most of it. The roads in the Montreal suburb where my parents live are pretty wide and could do with less width. On the other hand, areas like the Plateau Mont-Royal use streets as car storage and aren't that wide.

Well, we could also eliminate public car storage, I thought that went without saying . Ultimately, it's all speculation, no government would ever consider this, even a moderately progressive one, as they have, largely because much like sasquatch or big foot, fiscal conservatives are something that people think they see a lot, but is generally just a figment of their imagination.

There was a tweet that pointed to a forum discussion of a USSR simulation game talking about car storage and how in the real USSR people had to walk 30 minutes to their parking lot (they used their cars to go to the dacha, not to work). Can't find it again. But it would be hard to imagine that in any North American city.

In the Plateau in particular there aren't any driveways. So if there was no on-street parking it would actually be even more difficult to own a car than it is. You already have to move your car twice a week for snow removal in winter.

[danbrotherston]

Well, we could also eliminate public car storage, I thought that went without saying . Ultimately, it's all speculation, no government would ever consider this, even a moderately progressive one, as they have, largely because much like sasquatch or big foot, fiscal conservatives are something that people think they see a lot, but is generally just a figment of their imagination.

There was a tweet that pointed to a forum discussion of a USSR simulation game talking about car storage and how in the real USSR people had to walk 30 minutes to their parking lot (they used their cars to go to the dacha, not to work). Can't find it again. But it would be hard to imagine that in any North American city.

In the Plateau in particular there aren't any driveways. So if there was no on-street parking it would actually be even more difficult to own a car than it is. You already have to move your car twice a week for snow removal in winter.

I assume Montreal does have public garages? I assume this is more to do with free parking entitlement than actual need. 

That being said I have no problem with it being difficult and inconvenient to own cars in some places. It's why I oppose parking minimums.

[plam]

There's no way there is sufficient garage capacity to store everyone's cars in substantial portions of the city, though I don't know the numbers. Looking at Google maps should be illustrative.

I mean I would like it to be even more inconvenient to own a car and I personally would be fine with walking 30 minutes to reach my car (because I would never think of car commuting) but that's not where society is at.

[danbrotherston]

There's no way there is sufficient garage capacity to store everyone's cars in substantial portions of the city, though I don't know the numbers. Looking at Google maps should be illustrative.

I mean I would like it to be even more inconvenient to own a car and I personally would be fine with walking 30 minutes to reach my car (because I would never think of car commuting) but that's not where society is at.

The lack of garage capacity is a result of breaking the market on garage space by providing some people free storage on the streets.

As for "where we are as a society", I don't disagree, the transition is hard, I'm talking only of the destination. The frustrating part is few of us have even agreed on that destination, let alone figure out a route.

But we are quickly reaching a point where the trip is going to be far more jarring than it could have been if we'd faced reality sooner.

[tomh009]

There's no way there is sufficient garage capacity to store everyone's cars in substantial portions of the city, though I don't know the numbers. Looking at Google maps should be illustrative.

There is no overnight street parking in Kitchener during the winter. So, surely, there is capacity somewhere to store everyone's cars, they don't simply disappear for the winter.

[danbrotherston]

There's no way there is sufficient garage capacity to store everyone's cars in substantial portions of the city, though I don't know the numbers. Looking at Google maps should be illustrative.

There is no overnight street parking in Kitchener during the winter. So, surely, there is capacity somewhere to store everyone's cars, they don't simply disappear for the winter.

I believe this was in reference to Montreal, where on street parking is used for permanent storage of specific personal property (i.e., I can store my belongings on public property for free, but ONLY if I can afford a car).

In KW, yes, I believe with only one or two exceptions (where permits are used, which do not pay for parking, but are at least not free and are highly limited in scope) does not use public property to permanently store private property.

[plam]

There is no overnight street parking in Kitchener during the winter. So, surely, there is capacity somewhere to store everyone's cars, they don't simply disappear for the winter.

I believe this was in reference to Montreal, where on street parking is used for permanent storage of specific personal property (i.e., I can store my belongings on public property for free, but ONLY if I can afford a car).

In KW, yes, I believe with only one or two exceptions (where permits are used, which do not pay for parking, but are at least not free and are highly limited in scope) does not use public property to permanently store private property.

Yeah. Montreal's been like that for decades, it would be hard to transition to a state where garages exist (and that would be a lot of garages). KW has the space for car storage on private property.

Shoup points out that in a curb cuts and driveways vs on-street situation, the curb cuts block out and privatize space that could otherwise be used for parking by the public.