Winter Walking and Cycling

[MidTowner]

That's crummy But realistically, the sidewalks can't be cleared 100% of the time. We'll see what sidewalks are like this morning, and how many of them will be cleared by tomorrow morning, 24 hours since the snow stopped.

[panamaniac]

I'm wondering why there was more snow on the sidewalks than on the bicycle lane?

[plam]

I will praise the snow clearing on the Laurel Trail through the park this morning (though Central Dr through the park wasn't cleared yet, which I'm fine with; we have to have priorities).

We should always strive to do better. But we could also be doing worse. Athens is actually pretty unwalkable with respect to sidewalks (they are super irregular) if you have mobility issues, and we're a lot better than Athens. They don't even get winter.

[jwilliamson]

The spurline trail was decently cleared. One half had about a centimetre of snow and the other half had enough salt that it was wet asphalt. The laurel trail was clear from Bridgeport to the spurline, but uncleared and icy between Weber and Bridgeport.

[MidTowner]

Walking around this week, my observation was that, the properties that didn't tend to clear snow in years past, didn't have their sidewalks cleared after the first snowfall this year. I don't know if that is a failure on the part of the City's educational and enforcement efforts, but it's what I experienced.

The pattern that I usually observe holds: a majority of properties make at least an attempt to clear and usually a good attempt, but a few frontages where no clearing was done whatsoever can mean it's very difficult to get around.

[danbrotherston]

Walking around this week, my observation was that, the properties that didn't tend to clear snow in years past, didn't have their sidewalks cleared after the first snowfall this year. I don't know if that is a failure on the part of the City's educational and enforcement efforts, but it's what I experienced.

The pattern that I usually observe holds: a majority of properties make at least an attempt to clear and usually a good attempt, but a few frontages where no clearing was done whatsoever can mean it's very difficult to get around.

Lol. I think I've said this every year for a few years. Nothing changes.

I am anxious to see the pilot though.

[MidTowner]

It's been eight years for me (since moving here), but specifically six (since I've had kids and noticed it more poignantly). I'm curious about the results of the pilot. I do think there is every possibility of tinkering with it to make conditions better under the current system but, then again, there's been plenty of tinkering the last three years, and not much improvement that I've noticed.

[danbrotherston]

It's been eight years for me (since moving here), but specifically six (since I've had kids and noticed it more poignantly). I'm curious about the results of the pilot. I do think there is every possibility of tinkering with it to make conditions better under the current system but, then again, there's been plenty of tinkering the last three years, and not much improvement that I've noticed.

I don't think there is any feasible improvement under the current system. Not that it isn't possible, just that it isn't feasible. Basically, there'd have to be aggressive pro-active enforcement, with fines big enough (or some adjustment) to ensure that commercial properties are not able to pay for the right to ignore it. Additionally, for the few holdouts, there'd have to be a far faster (like, less than the current 3-4 months (not exaggerating here), more like 36 hours) response time on fixing missed sidewalks. All together this would probably result in high compliance and reliably clear sidewalks...maybe even better than city clearing. But no city councillor would support it. For one, the actual cost to the city will be far higher, even counting fine revenue, and for two, the complaints will be vicious. There is not a single councillor who would support such a program, and in fact, most have already balked at the response they've gotten from people as a result of the minimal pilot project that was implemented.

The real problem is there are a few councillors who don't actually believe there is actually any problem, they walk in their neighbourhood, and see only a few uncleared sidewalks, and when they come to them, they walk over them, without really noticing, because they're able, more, they probably manage to avoid walking anywhere meaningful the day or two after a storm, thus, they live in denial like so many of our fellow citizens.

So those few (and their many many supporters) have no motive to fix a problem they don't believe exists, no matter how they feel it should be fixed.

[tomh009]

I don't think there is any feasible improvement under the current system. Not that it isn't possible, just that it isn't feasible. Basically, there'd have to be aggressive pro-active enforcement, with fines big enough (or some adjustment) to ensure that commercial properties are not able to pay for the right to ignore it.

Are you seeing commercial properties as a big part of the problem? My experience is that it's mostly residential sidewalks, commercial properties usually have a contract for snow removal.

[plam]

I don't think there is any feasible improvement under the current system. Not that it isn't possible, just that it isn't feasible. Basically, there'd have to be aggressive pro-active enforcement, with fines big enough (or some adjustment) to ensure that commercial properties are not able to pay for the right to ignore it.

Are you seeing commercial properties as a big part of the problem? My experience is that it's mostly residential sidewalks, commercial properties usually have a contract for snow removal.

I was biking on the sidewalk on Borden today from Iron Horse to Grand River Rocks (what, am I going to cross the street for the 200m?). The used car dealership next to GRR is pretty bad at clearing the sidewalk.

(Also noticed that Iron Horse is still under construction but took the Belmont bike lane...)

[ijmorlan]

The pattern that I usually observe holds: a majority of properties make at least an attempt to clear and usually a good attempt, but a few frontages where no clearing was done whatsoever can mean it's very difficult to get around.

It occurs to me that any statistics should be done at approximately the block level. The rating for a block should be the rating of the worst property on the block. This would give a reasonable picture of the conditions experienced by somebody with low mobility. Suppose 95% of properties are reasonably well cleared (however well done one believes that to be). This is of course a hilarious suggestion, but let’s just go with it for the moment. Then some one walking several blocks will encounter a barrier approximately 100% of the time. So reporting “95% clear rate” would be grossly misleading, to the point of dishonesty. If instead we report maybe “50% of blocks clear” then we get something that might actually get people to think about the implications.

[MidTowner]

I'm not sure if there are terms for the City's pilot program. In the past, though, any statistics presented by City staff were concerning the number of sidewalks given notices. But there was not even a clear definition as to when properties would be given notices. One staff report said "2,350 sidewalks were inspected and a total of 480 [about 20%] notices were issued. Out of 480 notices, only three addresses were sent for clearing, which is 0.6% of notices issued and 0.1% of the total properties inspected."

All that to say is, we're pretty far from honest statistics being collected and reported. But I agree with you: the nature of the problem is such that, one property along someone's route can mean that person can't get somewhere, so a 30 to 50 foot frontage is not the right level at which to present results.

Re: commercial properties. Some are a problem. There are sidewalks on King Street on both sides of downtown that were not passable by the end of last work week.

[jamincan]

Also, it is already a failure if they have to send out a notice. You can't claim close to 100% compliance if it required some type of enforcement action in order to get 20% of those to comply. Someone who has to reach their bus stop can't afford to wait several days for snow to be cleared.

[danbrotherston]

Also, it is already a failure if they have to send out a notice. You can't claim close to 100% compliance if it required some type of enforcement action in order to get 20% of those to comply. Someone who has to reach their bus stop can't afford to wait several days for snow to be cleared.

Or months. Some sidewalks sent for clearing weren't cleared for months. 

Any sidewalk clearing metric also needs some weighting by importance. It has far more impact when the sidewalk on king king isn't cleared between a seniors home and a bus stop than when a suburban cul de sac is isn't cleared.

[jamincan]

I wonder if Google and Yelp reviews could improve things. Google was asking me to review Turtle Jacks in Hamilton after going out to dinner there on Sunday. The food was okay - nothing spectacular as you'd expect - but the only thing that really stuck in my mind was the fact that they were the one business that hadn't bothered to clear their sidewalk, even several days after the last snow. I rated and reviewed it accordingly and hopefully the restaurant manager notices.

What are the requirements for reviewing a business on these platforms? Do you actually have to be a patron? I think a review highlighting lack of snow clearing is highly relevant to people looking for a place to go, and I certainly don't need to patronize the establishment to know they're a shitty business if they fail to clear their sidewalk.