ION Phase 2 - Cambridge's Light Rail Transit

[Bob_McBob]

The issue isn't the data, it's the negative slant Outhit always puts on it. Like the way he cites the entire 30 year operating cost of ION in situations where most people would use the $880m construction cost. It's easy to present factual data in a way that significantly influences the reader's opinion, and he has a long history of doing it. He knows exactly what the average reader will get out of that article: Stage 1 was a failure, and Stage 2 is a complete waste of money.

[Momo26]

Curious what's considered a dog crate condo? By definition?

[bravado]

Curious what's considered a dog crate condo? By definition?

The magic of these words is that they mean whatever you want... like "neighbourhood character".

[danbrotherston]

Curious what's considered a dog crate condo? By definition?

The magic of these words is that they mean whatever you want... like "neighbourhood character".

Or “cash grab”

[KingandWeber]

The issue isn't the data, it's the negative slant Outhit always puts on it. Like the way he cites the entire 30 year operating cost of ION in situations where most people would use the $880m construction cost. It's easy to present factual data in a way that significantly influences the reader's opinion, and he has a long history of doing it. He knows exactly what the average reader will get out of that article: Stage 1 was a failure, and Stage 2 is a complete waste of money.

This is my problem with the article as well. I actually really appreciate all the statistics and other data, but it omits statistics that are foundational to contextualize GRT's ridership since 2019 and the success or failure of ION, namely (1) has GRT ridership grown/declined more or less than other peer cities and Toronto during the same timeframe? (2) what is the mode share of transit for each peer city and has it grown/declined more or less than other peer cities during the same timeframe? It's my understanding all transit agencies suffered major ridership declines through the pandemic and I expect most/all also likely did as a result of the recent reduction in foreign students. The real question is whether GRT did better or worse relative to others considering those important factors. 

Also, there are many red flags with what data is being looked and and the conclusions being drawn. As just one example, under the bolded subheading "The launch of streetcars did not reverse a decade-long transit downturn", the article goes on to explain its conclusion as follows: "Transit fell to 5.5 per cent of daily trips taken in 2016 and further dipped to 5.3 per cent in 2022-23, up to four years after rail transit launched." I appreciate more recent data may not be available, but 2022/2023 was very much the tail end of the pandemic and almost all transit patterns remained severely disrupted during that time given a huge amount of workers were still working remotely. It just seems like a very weak, and even dishonest conclusion.

And finally, the article omits all real discussion of densification. Interestingly though, there is reference to the fact that WR residents "cycle slightly more often and walk even more often" since 2016. Is this because there are more residents living in denser neighbourhoods as a result of the construction boom from ION? We don't know, but of course that isn't explored.

Basically I'm frustrated because this is such an important article and analysis, but it's just been done so poorly. If ION truly had no or negligible impact on transit usage/mode share relative to other peer cities when the effects of the pandemic are accounted for, then let's draw that conclusion and try to understand why it failed. But this article comes nowhere close to that.

[bravado]

I have pretty low expectations for what’s left of local journalism, but what I can’t understand is the complete absence of public education from the region.

What’s the cost of current transport options? How much does it cost to maintain hespeler rd in its current state? What’s the price tag for moving 10000 cars vs 10000 train trips? How much new tax revenue has the LRT generated vs before it was built? Why is there no sales pitch from the data source itself, the region? I know all of this likely exists in some 400 page report prepared by regional staff who fear for their jobs daily and aren’t empowered to ever speak. So, why isn’t it taken from them by leadership and packaged in a compelling way for the public?

Nobody seems to be willing to get ahead of the usual angry cranks who seem to dominate all local discussions. I remember there was one slideshow from a city of Kitchener presentation years ago explaining how much it costs to service a low density vs high density neighborhood. Where’s that messaging to help people counter the “my taxes!!!” crowd? Why is it left to enthusiasts and activists to do?

Local politicians seem to only exist as vessels for people to whine to - why don’t they ever have the confidence to say “this is what we are going to do because I think it’s the right thing to do” and defend themselves with data and confidence and presentation quality?

[Acitta]

Ion streetcars did not boost transit ridership. But they will, advocate contends

[bravado]

Calling them "streetcars" is an Outhit classic. I feel like writing an article about transit would require you to know a thing about transit. Good on TriTAG for being so present and visible during this whole thing.

[KevinL]

Yup, didn't have to see the byline once that word appeared. So horridly predictable.

[Momo26]

It passed

https://www.ctvnews.ca/kitchener/article...cambridge/

[Momo26]

I have pretty low expectations for what’s left of local journalism, but what I can’t understand is the complete absence of public education from the region.

What’s the cost of current transport options? How much does it cost to maintain hespeler rd in its current state? What’s the price tag for moving 10000 cars vs 10000 train trips? How much new tax revenue has the LRT generated vs before it was built? Why is there no sales pitch from the data source itself, the region? I know all of this likely exists in some 400 page report prepared by regional staff who fear for their jobs daily and aren’t empowered to ever speak. So, why isn’t it taken from them by leadership and packaged in a compelling way for the public?

Nobody seems to be willing to get ahead of the usual angry cranks who seem to dominate all local discussions. I remember there was one slideshow from a city of Kitchener presentation years ago explaining how much it costs to service a low density vs high density neighborhood. Where’s that messaging to help people counter the “my taxes!!!” crowd? Why is it left to enthusiasts and activists to do?

Local politicians seem to only exist as vessels for people to whine to - why don’t they ever have the confidence to say “this is what we are going to do because I think it’s the right thing to do” and defend themselves with data and confidence and presentation quality?

Where is this piece on servicing low density?

[ZEBuilder]

I have pretty low expectations for what’s left of local journalism, but what I can’t understand is the complete absence of public education from the region.

What’s the cost of current transport options? How much does it cost to maintain hespeler rd in its current state? What’s the price tag for moving 10000 cars vs 10000 train trips? How much new tax revenue has the LRT generated vs before it was built? Why is there no sales pitch from the data source itself, the region? I know all of this likely exists in some 400 page report prepared by regional staff who fear for their jobs daily and aren’t empowered to ever speak. So, why isn’t it taken from them by leadership and packaged in a compelling way for the public?

Nobody seems to be willing to get ahead of the usual angry cranks who seem to dominate all local discussions. I remember there was one slideshow from a city of Kitchener presentation years ago explaining how much it costs to service a low density vs high density neighborhood. Where’s that messaging to help people counter the “my taxes!!!” crowd? Why is it left to enthusiasts and activists to do?

Local politicians seem to only exist as vessels for people to whine to - why don’t they ever have the confidence to say “this is what we are going to do because I think it’s the right thing to do” and defend themselves with data and confidence and presentation quality?

Where is this piece on servicing low density?

There's multiple pieces of literature that show that lower density inherently has higher maintenance and capital costs associated with it.

In Metro Vancouver there was a study completed on initial servicing costs (which are covered by the developer) which showed higher densities have lower servicing costs.

Or even think of it this way. A street in Kitchener 370m long required reconstruction, all underground infrastructure needed to be replaced (Sanitary, Storm, Water) this includes the primary pipe plus all the connections to properties. This work cost the city 3 million dollars. The street itself has 34 single family homes and 1 small apartment. It means the city is incurring a cost of 85k per house. Not ridiculous but not insane either.

Now if we were to take 160m of King St by Station Park, its half the length but it is servicing roughly 2000 units, while yes you would require large pipes to carry the sanitary flows and water, you could realistically say the labour cost is comparative. Hence let's just say 3 million dollars. This is only 1500 dollars to the city when they have to eventually replace that in terms of per unit basis compared to 85k, yet the taxes you are collecting from Station Park are significantly higher than what the taxes of those SFH would be. So simply put density is cheaper in the city.

That's effectively what bravado was getting at.

[bravado]

Yeah there are so many better communicators our there than me, thankfully @ZEBuilder is one of them.

I was actually referring to a literal photo of a slide from a slideshow that the City of Kitchener has in their possession. It showed up on reddit one day and explained how much it costs to serve 100 condos vs 100 SFHs - and some day I will find it again...

It's just deeply frustrating to have to rely on hobbyists like the group at WR Strong Towns + outside consulting firms like Urban3 to tell us what parts of the city are more productive than others. Why doesn't the city know? Councils talk about keeping taxes low 24/7 and yet they literally couldn't tell us which development proposals pay more tax per sq ft than others and use that when they set planning priorities.

If these conservative councillors want to run "government like a business", why don't they know where the profits and losses come from? If they did, things like the LRT would be built without any hesitation.

[plam]

It passed

https://www.ctvnews.ca/kitchener/article...cambridge/

Great. But:

“All you have to do is tell the people of Cambridge that two lanes of Hespeler Road are going to be removed in order to do this and the congestion is going to be brutal,” Adam Cooper, a Cambridge City Councillor, said while delegating to regional council.

C'mon.

[Momo26]

Hahahaha