(05-13-2021, 06:18 PM)danbrotherston Wrote:Maybe you should stop and listen to what ac3r, an actual indigenous person, had to say, instead of speaking from your position of white privilege on how minorities should be treated.(05-12-2021, 01:04 PM)Bjays93 Wrote: I wasnt going to say anything more but I feel theres a couple points that have to be made.
First off, people having the ability to choose how they are governed is inherently democratic. Not all democracies have to be parliamentarian democracies. If the people have the ability to choose how they're governed, and change their minds and change how they are governed down the line, then it is the will of the people that backs those who are governing and it is inherently democratic.
Secondly, civil disobedience and disruption are fine in some contexts however I have to agree that we cant allow a minority to grind the country to a halt and trample on the will of the majority. If the majority of people are ignored by the government then creating significant disruptions is justified until the government listens but the government has a mandate to carry out the will of the people and the majority of the people (they dont always do this) but it means they shouldnt crater to the demands of 1 or 2%
Thirdly, the whole thing about the power structures from the past being racist and continuing to rely on them is in turn not neutral. What do you suggest we do then? Force the old indigenous system back on first nations? Let's see how well that goes, we'd just be continuing to dictate indigenous affairs then.
Even if the current power structures were not founded from a place of neutral intent, as discussed the first nations now have the autonomy to change them, so any attempts to remove our colonial legacy must come from within. If they have the autonomy to change their systems and dont the ownice cannot be on us, and any attempts by the federal government to meddle in indigenous affairs now that they have autonomy is a continuation of our colonial legacy not vice versa.
Finally, the issue of the drinking water is not a clear cut one. It's a two way street. Lack of government funding for clean water projects is an issue, but there are many examples where the government invested in water treatment facilities that became run down and neglected after only a year or in some cases find were never even properly allocated. The only real solution I see is for the government to stop insisting it handle all utilities and give reserves sovereignty over their utilities like everything else, then it is up to the reserves not the feds to ensure things like safe drinking water and the feds cannot neglect reserves or be held liable.
I'm sorry, this whole thing is....painful.
What I suggest is that we all read the TRC report and implement that, it seems like a good start.
Off the top of my head, we should probably refrain from suggesting that this particular minority is "trampling" "our" will, given how consistently we have trampled their entire culture.
But I think you are missing the point on that topic. The will of the majority absolutely SHOULD have a back seat to the rights of that minority. It is not in how many people want something, there are basic human rights which should not be violated, which we have absolutely violated for years. The tyranny of the majority is a real and ever present threat. Hell, we see this daily, the "majority" drivers don't want to compromise their travel times so that cyclists and pedestrians can get around safely, although the situations are merely analogous, not even remotely similar in scope and scale of harm.
Minority rights are important absolutely, it's why they are literally written into our bill of rights and freedoms which is entrenched in our constitution. My comments on minority vs majority protest had nothing to do with race and ethnicity you inferred that. I was just saying as a general principle when it extends beyond peaceful protest to civil disobedience I think the time thats most acceptable is when a large portion, not 1 or 2% of people, support whatever is being protested about.
Also an oil pipeline that was approved by the elected leaders of indigenous reserves has nothing to do with basic human rights, since that's the specific example we have been discussing.
Despite being white, I've actually had the experience of being a minority and have had people be extremely racist towards me growing up in Asia. I am still incredibly privileged and recognize that, and I am in no way saying I have had the experience of minorities that have been oppressed for hundreds and thousands of years, but I do have just a sliver of an idea as to what it's like.
If these were easy problems to discuss and fix then they wouldnt still be problems. Yes we cant allow the majority to trample on the minority, but as ac3r said, having a minority rule can be equally as problematic. Until your willing to acknowledge this there's no point in even having a discussion.
Edit: also define what on earth constitutes to a minority cuz I guess if 3% of canadians support an authoritarian government the 97% who support democracy should have their wills take a back seat. Yay authoritarianism (yes that's an extreme but it's the natural end result of your logical line of thinking)