05-09-2021, 08:58 PM
(05-09-2021, 08:02 PM)ac3r Wrote:(05-09-2021, 12:15 PM)ijmorlan Wrote: the idea that descendants of Europeans have some sort of inherited guilt is ridiculous, and more importantly, unhelpful.
I think it's important you (and all else) do feel something. It isn't ridiculous nor unhelpful as you claim it is.
It doesn't need to be guilt, but to us people of colour, we don't always want to just pretend everything is okay, that we all live here together now, that we're all some homogenized mass where there is no X Y Z. We are here and need representation - and need it always, not just on some National Aboriginal Day or something. I think white people in particular need to feel something - and if that means guilt, okay - but I would prefer a gnawing thing in your mind that reminds you of why you get to live a luxurious life here on this particular place on earth.
Yes, this is reasonable, and I appreciate you taking the time to say it.
Quote: Just remember what you built this country on. Genocide, slavery, cultural assassination, eugenics, rape. Keep in mind that currently you're living on land that isn't yours - it's part of the Haldimand Proclamation Tract. We're building all of this on land that belongs to a group of Indigenous people that have no power to stop it, even though they own this.
Just about every place on earth has these things in its past, or in some cases present.
Re: the land, almost every piece of land on earth has been stolen at some point in the past. That doesn’t mean my title isn’t valid.
Re: the Haldimand tract, I would appreciate any pointers you might have to resources on this. My understanding of the history is that it was first stolen (or at least claimed) by white people working for the King of Great Britain (edit: I just looked at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haldimand_Proclamation and apparently it was bought from the Mississaugas of the Credit; but then there is some messy stuff about just what was bought and granted); then later “given” (OK, if purchased, then actually given, not “given”) to the Haudenosaunee. Then later I’m a bit unclear; how did it get lost? Somewhere I read something about a court battle in which the Haudenosaunee (or at least their agent) argued they should be able to sell the land and the government argued they couldn’t. But then apparently the German Company bought Waterloo Township from Joseph Brant acting on behalf of the Haudenosaunee. Was that a coerced sale, or maybe Brant was a crook who took the money and ran? (Note: not an accusation; I really don’t understand what happened; I’m just saying that the basic facts as available to me make it look like the land was purchased, not stolen)
So I actually do want to know more about that. But on another level, I don’t care what the history is; my title is valid, period. To argue otherwise is to argue that substantially the entire planet should be enveloped in litigation without foreseeable end. This is also why I am unalterably opposed to payments to descendants of slaves for their ancestors’ enslavement; it would be a mess and would not fix the problems we have today. What we need is just (in the sense of “justice”, not “only”) solutions to our present problems, not revenge or punishment or even compensation for actions committed by long-dead people against other long-dead people.