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The Aud
#16
(01-24-2016, 09:39 AM)Canard Wrote: I don't know what the capacity is, but if it's 20 000 people, and if only 10% take Light Rail and need to get to the Charles St. stop, that's still 2000 people you have to move in the course of ~15 minutes, to be reasonable.

8000 capacity, so I think handing a portion of that by a shuttle service (as opposed to the regular scheduled service) would be quite feasible.
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#17
(01-24-2016, 05:04 PM)MacBerry Wrote:
(01-24-2016, 03:47 PM)mpd618 Wrote: I don't think it would be worse. Downtown Kitchener has thousands of parking spaces primarily for weekday office workers, and very little of that is used in the evenings or weekends. It's also easier to reach by modes other than driving, so more people would be able to shift to those.

It wouldn't be the end of the world if more parking capacity were added downtown - but it has a lot fewer impacts if it's part of a building with other uses, especially at ground floor, rather than a surface lot.

Perhaps in the next decade the thoughts on a future replacement athletic and entertainment centre should consider a 15000 seat arena and a new conference centre combined. 

As for location I think somewhere in or close to the "downtown" area would be better than the half way to Guelph conference centre the Region uses now and the current highway junction that the Aud currently has. Location certainly should be along and adjacent to the LRT corridor and even stopping inside.

I personally think the current location is just fine. It's close enough to the LRT and with a proper shuttle or bus line from the LRT station at Charles/Borden it would be quite accessible. Arenas often are located in the burbs or industrial parks because of their sheer size - remember there were talks of moving it near Bud Park? It would be extremely difficult and extremely expensive to locate it right Downtown. The Aud is close enough to downtown and I see a real opportunity for portions of the parking lot to be developed over time. Make it a destination point with retail, employment and residential and it would be much more desirable - there's basically nothing to do after the game right now then hit the pub at Eastwood Square or drive somewhere else. If the City invested in some well-connected parking structures, portions of the property could be sold for development. A better idea would be to partner with developers to include underground parking in any new development that would occur that could be used by the Aud.

If it was mine, I wouldn't move it. I'd just invest in making it better.
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#18
It's a 750m walk from the Aud to the Borden LRT station.
There's precedent that people will walk this far. Skydome is 750m away from Union subway station.

As for dealing with the crush of people after a game, there are a few things that can help with that:
1) The 750m walk does a good job of spreading the load out. Some people are faster, and some slower. If it takes 15 minutes for everyone to file out of the stadium, and 5~15 minutes to walk the distance, then people are arriving at the platform from ~5 minutes after the game through to ~30 minutes after the game. At 10 minute frequencies, that spreads the load over 3 trains, each direction. The trains have a crush capacity of 250 people, which is probably optimistic so lets say 200, so that's room for 1,200 people.

2) ION Expansion. 2-car trains doubles the capacity. 5-minute frequency (should be be so lucky one day) doubles that again, to 4,800. I don't see an 8,000 seat arena maxing that out, considering a lot of Kitchenerites would be going east/west instead of the north/south offered by ION.

3) Better bus service. When the 205 iXpress on Ottawa starts up, it will offer a regular route that covers much of Kitchener. No needing to trust a special shuttle that may or may not be what you want. If it proves popular, GRT can arrange unscheduled extra runs that marshal outside the stadium.

4) realtyforward's idea to add "things to do" around the Aud. If there were more places nearby for post-game drinks or meals, each of those will capture and delay a small chunk of the traffic.
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#19
I feel there'd be a certain irony; the neighbourhood to the west of the Aud has never been a fan of people using their streets as parking for games. That said, I doubt they'd be happy with any kind of Rangers-game numbers being encouraged to walk through their neighbourhoods. While Skydome has some of the most thorough pedestrian coverage to get people to Union station, walking west from the Aud, simple as it seems, is not particularly inviting, nor would its residents be. But I'd be happy if that didn't have to be the case.
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#20
This may not be a popular opinion, but I view where the Aud is to be the edge of a potential new "downtown". Everything between Eugene George Way and Charles, and between Ottawa and Borden/Dane can and should be redeveloped, and if done properly can make the whole conversation of moving the aud somewhat moot. Also, since the Skydome was mentioned, it would be interesting if they could require a covered walkway to be included in the new developments between there and the LRT station.
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#21
Yeah, more pedestrian traffic on Borden after games is an inevitability. Those homeowners are not going to be happy. Particularly if the home team loses a particularly important game...
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#22
It's called the Rogers Centre. It hasn't been called the Sky Dome in over 10 years. lol. 
And the Rogers Centre is located in Downtown Toronto. My whole spiel was that ours isn't located downtown, and having it downtown will create a vibrant - buzz downtown that Kitchener really lacks to be honest.

Also, if london could do what they did, I don't see why we can't do it. And it has been successful ever since.

"The London Ice House was an arena in London, OntarioCanada. It was originally built in 1963 and was home to the London Knights ice hockey team from 1965–2002. The arena had a capacity of approximately 5,000 and was designed as a one level Boston Garden. The arena was originally named Treasure Island Gardens as the building was a part of the Treasure Island Plaza mall complex located in south London. The arena also included a second ice pad but was eventually closed.[1]
In 1994, the London Knights and the building were purchased by new owner Doug Tarry, who renamed building as the London Ice House.[1] Tarry upgraded the building in 1994, including replacing the seats on the sides and adding more emergency exits to bring the building up to the fire code, but once the refurbishing was complete the team and building went downhill steadily, as Tarry preferred to allow the building to deteriorate as part of his lobbying the city for a new arena, given that they were the only team in the OHL who owned their own building without municipal assistance and taxes in excess of $125,000 per year in 1999. The team was sold as the city warmed up to building a new facility. The London Knights underwent a renaissance after being purchased by Dale and Mark Hunter in a deal brokered by George Georgopoulos who was negotiating with the City for a multi-purpose entertainment centre and arena in Downtown London.
The team would leave the Gardens/Ice House after the 2001-02 season and relocate to the newly built John Labatt Centre (now currently named Budweiser Gardens) on the former Talbot Block in Downtown London the following season. "


I mean the Aud is even older than the London Ice house. It was built 1950, thats 66 years ago. The investment in downtown would be a major key. 
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#23
It's always gonna be the Skydome, the people of Ontario paid 550 million for it so we'll call whatever we want Big Grin

A new arena would cost at least $150 million so I don't think there's any way the city could afford to build a new one. I don't think there's any way that 150$ million would ever make its way back to the community in the form increased restaurant business and other associated economic benefits. If there isn't an arena downtown people that come downtown are still gonna do other things and spend that money at cinemas, museums, pubs and other things. With our downtown becoming a much more dynamic place I don't think an arena is needed to create buzz; there's already some of that coming and more is on the way.

Also, I think the economic case against subsidizing professional sports facilities is pretty good. long article here. But given that the Aud is a city-owned building and the Rangers are owned by the season-tickets holders as a not-for-profit it might not be the same as NHL and NBA stadium deals but I still think that the economic benefits of stadiums are over-sold. Without the option to go to a game downtown, people are still gonna go out and catch a movie, have a fancy dinner or go out to a club so the spending would still happen it's just spread out over different things and over more time rather than just 35 nights a year (or however many home games they have now)

Besides that, the space needed for a rink would consume a lot of land, I'd guess at least the big open field at Victoria Park for a size comparison plus whatever lands needed for parking. I don't see that much of downtown worth razing so the Rangers have a shiny new home.
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#24
(01-25-2016, 09:27 PM)jordan2423 Wrote: I mean the Aud is even older than the London Ice house. It was built 1950, thats 66 years ago. The investment in downtown would be a major key. 

And yet, location aside, OHL Arena Guide ranked the Aud as the best arena in the OHL.  Read for yourself:
http://www.ohlarenaguide.com/top20index.htm

Although that was 10 years ago, the Aud is still a very good arena.

To quote:
Quote:Perhaps it's ironic that a team that I dislike intensely plays in my favourite building in the OHL. No matter. The Aud is a gem. Sixty years old, the building has a wonderful old facade, worn floors and painted bricks inside, great atmosphere, and views so good that they make you gasp, yet it also has been maintained immaculately, frequently renovated, and has all of the amenities that you'd expect from any modern building. Featuring the best combination of old-style charm and new-style facilities I've encountered in hockey at any level, the Aud truly is deserving of its number one title. 
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#25
Plus in 15 or so years that'll be the other end of Downtown, so it's still moot.
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#26
(01-25-2016, 10:32 PM)clasher Wrote: It's always gonna be the Skydome, the people of Ontario paid 550 million for it so we'll call whatever we want  Big Grin
Rogers bought the "Skydome" for a whopping $50 Million in 2005 ... hello awesome for profit world we have a wonderful gift for you from Dalton McGuinty. Enjoy increasing your profits with no Rogers Centre renovations and oh yes the land is/was worth more than the the $50 million they paid.
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#27
(01-25-2016, 11:55 PM)MacBerry Wrote: Rogers bought the "Skydome" for a whopping $50 Million in 2005 ... hello awesome for profit world we have a wonderful gift for you from Dalton McGuinty. Enjoy increasing your profits with no Rogers Centre renovations and oh yes the land is/was worth more than the the $50 million they paid.

Rogers has done quite a bit of work on the SkyDome since they bought it. $70 million has already been spent, with a $250 million capital budget over the next five years. Also, I'm not sure if you are suggesting that Rogers owns the land, but they do not. They have a long-term lease on the land.
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#28
The Skydome has transferred hands a few times before Rogers got it. First Labatt bought it from the province for $151M in 1994. In 1999 the stadium declared bankruptcy and was purchased by another consortium for $80M. Rogers bought it from Sportsco in 2005 for $50M.
It was Rae that Sold the stadium first to cut its losses.
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#29
(01-25-2016, 09:27 PM)jordan2423 Wrote: I mean the Aud is even older than the London Ice house. It was built 1950, thats 66 years ago. The investment in downtown would be a major key. 

I'm no hockey buff, but I am a Londoner and used to go to the Ice House to watch Knights games and other events. There's no comparing the Aud to the Ice House- the Ice House was truly terrible. The Aud is generally (I have to admit I am a layman talking here) a very nice arena; the Ice House was depressing in almost every way.

Additionally, as others have noted, the Aud is not that far from our downtown, and is within the built-up core. The Ice House is part of a terrible suburban plaza south of the 401, and in fact until the early '90s (when London annexed big swaths of Middlesex County) was outside of the City of London. Even today, the area still has almost no transit. The Ice House and the Aud is not an apt comparison at all.

Given the general quality of the Aud, and the investments in renovations made over the years, I can't see how it makes sense to move it. We should be exploring the possibility of a downtown convention centre instead, I think.

Edit: Oh, and just like it's the SkyDome and not whatever the current owners are trying in vain to get people to call it, the downtown arena in London is the John Labatt Centre and not whatever stupidity those nincompoops at InBev have decided to hang up over the door right now.
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#30
(01-26-2016, 02:11 PM)MidTowner Wrote: Edit: Oh, and just like it's the SkyDome and not whatever the current owners are trying in vain to get people to call it, the downtown arena in London is the John Labatt Centre and not whatever stupidity those nincompoops at InBev have decided to hang up over the door right now.

I still don't know why they didn't just revert back to calling it the SkyDome during the Pan-Am games.
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