Housing shortfall, costs and affordability

[tomh009]

Frankly I don't find what ac3r wrote worth censoring, nor is it close to the worst breaches of civility on this forum which don't get removed or modified.

If you see offensive posts, please do report them. We can certainly miss some of those.

[dtkvictim]

Frankly I don't find what ac3r wrote worth censoring, nor is it close to the worst breaches of civility on this forum which don't get removed or modified.

If you see offensive posts, please do report them. We can certainly miss some of those.

To clarify, I spend my online time with intent to broaden my information intake and avoid echo chambers, so nothing I've seen on this forum comes close to personally offending me. I'm not likely to report anything unless it's illegal.

My point was that on a relative scale to other discussions here, it didn't seem that bad. Perhaps you would have responded to same in other situations but simply didn't have eyes on them, in which case that's understandable.

[danbrotherston]

If you see offensive posts, please do report them. We can certainly miss some of those.

To clarify, I spend my online time with intent to broaden my information intake and avoid echo chambers, so nothing I've seen on this forum comes close to personally offending me. I'm not likely to report anything unless it's illegal.

My point was that on a relative scale to other discussions here, it didn't seem that bad. Perhaps you would have responded to same in other situations but simply didn't have eyes on them, in which case that's understandable.

I mean, everyone has different tolerances, but things don't have to be illegal to be offensive, and things don't have to be offensive to be unhelpful harmful contributions to a discussion/community.

Frankly, I enjoy this space because the level of discourse is high and not simply emotionally charged screaming as it is in other places. When someone like ac3r calls and insists literally that Trudeau is "evil" and "psychotic" it doesn't broaden my information intake, it degrades it...it replaces issues with emotions. So, while I'm not offended (Trudeau doesn't need my protection) I still don't think it brings any value here, and actively harms reasonable discussions.

But for offensive content, in a previous comment (which I'll admit, I didn't think to report) ac3r referred to homeless people as "vermin" perhaps that isn't a comment you saw, but I would hope that dehumanising a group of people--especially a group of people who are vulnerable and powerless--by referring to them as "vermin" is offensive to you. This is something that SHOULD be offensive to our humanity.

[ijmorlan]

Pulling out a gun at a party and randomly killing a bunch of people is evil and psychotic. Dressing up in a way that is widely, or even universally, considered to be bad taste, is not. Words have meanings, and Trudeau matches none of the ones you used.

You don't have to answer, but are you white? People of colour often do not see things like blackface and mocking certain ethnicities as simply "bad taste" because racism is not nice to witness or experience...especially from your nations leader. When you are on the receiving end of racism, it's a very humiliating experience. You don't get to decide how we feel and see these things.

Your skin colour and my skin colour have nothing to do with whether certain actions are evil and/or psychotic.

We’re talking about dressing in costume, as actors will. This can be inappropriate, and in context could even be threatening (I’m thinking about a KKK rally, for example, or a different modern event designed to intimidate), but in and of itself in the absence of any other evidence of ill will it cannot reasonably be described as either evil or psychotic.

I’m also aware of the fact that I’m talking to the guy who characterized homeless as vermin. So on some level I really don’t know why I’m saying any of this: it’s known that you frequently exaggerate to the point of absurdity, and often say things that are not worthy of a response. But you asked the question reasonably, so I’ve spent some time attempting to come up with a reasonable response that tries to be helpful.

[bravado]

Doug Ford finally says it out loud: he thinks that homeowners losing value is worse than people dying in tents and young people leaving the province.

Also, it’s odd how the “fiscal conservatives” continue to choose the urban planning that costs the most to build and maintain.

https://x.com/colindmello/status/1770806...68065?s=46

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[danbrotherston]

Doug Ford finally says it out loud: he thinks that homeowners losing value is worse than people dying in tents and young people leaving the province.

Also, it’s odd how the “fiscal conservatives” continue to choose the urban planning that costs the most to build and maintain.

https://x.com/colindmello/status/1770806...68065?s=46

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The thing about Ford is that he has basically no values. Now, I've before said that he does seem to respond when people are angry at him, and this is absolutely true...he'll pander to whomever most recently yelled at him. So he must have gotten a call from a NIMBY this morning.

That being said, I don't think this is particularly controversial. There are basically no politicians who actually want to solve the housing crisis...and of the general population, it's very non-mainstream view to understand how single family homes are harmful to cities. Even the war on cars is more mainstream than that IMO. Now yes, most people object to sprawl, but most people don't seem to make the connection between sprawl and single family homes. Or to put it more succinctly, the average person is geometrically challenged (at least when it comes to scale). They don't even grasp that about cars...the death, toxic air and noise pollution, traffic congestion, immense financial cost, social mobility, and climate change are really the only factors which are driving people to question cars.

[bravado]

I really think the BC government seems to have taken the Ford government’s housing task force report and is enacting almost all of it. Their housing starts are up - but I don’t think the constant doom cycle in Canadian news really rewards small victories like that.

[danbrotherston]

I really think the BC government seems to have taken the Ford government’s housing task force report and is enacting almost all of it. Their housing starts are up - but I don’t think the constant doom cycle in Canadian news really rewards small victories like that.

This is true...also Alberta's liberal/progressive cities are doing a lot of liberal/progressive things like enacting traditionally conservative policies to remove restrictions on housing...

Yes, that is a true sentence...despite how insane it sounds...we just live in an insane world...

[tomh009]

The thing about Ford is that he has basically no values. Now, I've before said that he does seem to respond when people are angry at him, and this is absolutely true...he'll pander to whomever most recently yelled at him.

Yes. This is the basic definition of a populist--neither conservative nor progressive.

That being said, I don't think this is particularly controversial. There are basically no politicians who actually want to solve the housing crisis...and of the general population, it's very non-mainstream view to understand how single family homes are harmful to cities.

Credit to the Kitchener council for at least doing something about this. Growing Together is not quite as much as I would like to see (as it leaves the surburbs untouched) but it's at least a good first step.

[danbrotherston]

The thing about Ford is that he has basically no values. Now, I've before said that he does seem to respond when people are angry at him, and this is absolutely true...he'll pander to whomever most recently yelled at him.

Yes. This is the basic definition of a populist--neither conservative nor progressive.

That being said, I don't think this is particularly controversial. There are basically no politicians who actually want to solve the housing crisis...and of the general population, it's very non-mainstream view to understand how single family homes are harmful to cities.

Credit to the Kitchener council for at least doing something about this. Growing Together is not quite as much as I would like to see (as it leaves the surburbs untouched) but it's at least a good first step.

Yeah, sorry, I should have clarified, provincial or federal. Lots of local politicians are doing things...for better or worse, and in some cases, for housing at least, much better.

[plam]

Incidentally, Wellington (NZ) just approved a new zoning plan which permits more much density. The interesting thing was that there was an independent panel which was super NIMBY and it got shot down by council. The amended plan now goes to the minister.

https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/15-03-...ns-the-war

[tomh009]

Incidentally, Wellington (NZ) just approved a new zoning plan which permits more much density. The interesting thing was that there was an independent panel which was super NIMBY and it got shot down by council. The amended plan now goes to the minister.

https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/15-03-...ns-the-war

That's great news for Wellington! They have something similar to our PARTS, not quite as much density but much simpler and a bigger area around each station:

The second huge win is for the northern suburbs. By defining the Johnsonville rail line as “rapid transit”, the council has enabled thousands of new homes to be built along the train line. Anything within a walking catchment of a rapid transit station must automatically be zoned for six-storey apartments. A successful amendment by Nīkau Wi Neera took it even further, expanding the rapid transit walking catchment from five minutes to 10 minutes. Multiplied across nine train stations on the Johnsonville and Kāpiti lines, this adds up to enormous potential for new housing.

[plam]

Incidentally, Wellington (NZ) just approved a new zoning plan which permits more much density. The interesting thing was that there was an independent panel which was super NIMBY and it got shot down by council. The amended plan now goes to the minister.

https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/15-03-...ns-the-war

That's great news for Wellington! They have something similar to our PARTS, not quite as much density but much simpler and a bigger area around each station:

The second huge win is for the northern suburbs. By defining the Johnsonville rail line as “rapid transit”, the council has enabled thousands of new homes to be built along the train line. Anything within a walking catchment of a rapid transit station must automatically be zoned for six-storey apartments. A successful amendment by Nīkau Wi Neera took it even further, expanding the rapid transit walking catchment from five minutes to 10 minutes. Multiplied across nine train stations on the Johnsonville and Kāpiti lines, this adds up to enormous potential for new housing.

Yeah, it is probably the most progressive zoning we've seen in New Zealand; Auckland upzoned a few years ago but not quite as much. Johnsonville is a small train but it is a train, which is always more than a bus. The independent panel tried to say "well, we have data about how people get to work [walking] but not about how they get back". It is true that walking back often involves significant uphill climb, but it's also unlikely that a car materializes at the bottom of the hill. Scooters and buses do.