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2019 Federal Election
#16
Yes, it's often about degrees of privilege. Economic privilege can isolate you from racial discrimination even if you are of a racial minority; conversely, being poor but white will expose you to economic discrimination but still provide racial privilege. Add in other spectra like gender, sexuality, religion, etc and the complexity of human experience opens up broadly.
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#17
Andrew Scheer is in the Region next week for a town hall. Clear Path Robotics is hosting.
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#18
(02-22-2019, 11:33 AM)KevinL Wrote: Yes, it's often about degrees of privilege. Economic privilege can isolate you from racial discrimination even if you are of a racial minority; conversely, being poor but white will expose you to economic discrimination but still provide racial privilege. Add in other spectra like gender, sexuality, religion, etc and the complexity of human experience opens up broadly.

It's not all what I would personally call privilege: it's what your parents are like, it's what community you happen to be born in, it's how sizable your ethnic group is in your community, it's how academically inclined you may happen to be, etc etc. Of course these would have been traditionally considered "privileges" (a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group).

But that said, I think I'm picking nits and mostly we are in agreement.
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#19
(02-22-2019, 12:00 AM)tomh009 Wrote:
(02-21-2019, 01:53 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: This was a major epiphany for me. It took me a long time to realize that a lack of diversity is a major harm...even if you get good people, they won't have a lived experience of other folks.  I do my best to empathize and to understand--which is more than many people do--but I still have never experienced life as say, a person questioning their sexuality, or a person who feels (rightly or wrongly) that the police are the enemy.

Yes, but every individual has lived different experiences. Having skin colour X does not necessarily mean the person has been discriminated against -- in fact, such a person could possibly even be a racist, even if X is not "white". And even if X is "black", it doesn't mean you necessarily have been harassed by the police.

Visible minorities are indeed more likely to be discriminated against, and more likely to be harassed by police, but that does not mean that every such person has had those experiences. So a candidate having such a skin colour may not have lived such experiences, either. (In fact, it's probably less likely than average as most political candidates tend to come from the higher socioeconomic classes.) On the other hand, a candidate (regardless of skin colour) who has experienced poverty and/or homelessness would indeed bring some valuable experience into the discussion.

Of course, but certain things mean you are guaranteed NOT to have this experience.  Again, this comes from aggregate. If EVERYONE on your senior management team is a man, then nobody on that team has had experience tracking their period, thus are going to have a blindspot to that need.  If half your team is women, there's a very good chance that someone will have had such an experience.
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#20
(02-22-2019, 04:50 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Of course, but certain things mean you are guaranteed NOT to have this experience.  Again, this comes from aggregate. If EVERYONE on your senior management team is a man, then nobody on that team has had experience tracking their period, thus are going to have a blindspot to that need.  If half your team is women, there's a very good chance that someone will have had such an experience.

Yes, to an extent. But even a male can have awareness of female issues (for example), so it's not a totally black-and-white, binary situation, where you are only aware of an issue if you have experienced it yourself.
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#21
(02-22-2019, 04:50 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Of course, but certain things mean you are guaranteed NOT to have this experience.  Again, this comes from aggregate. If EVERYONE on your senior management team is a man, then nobody on that team has had experience tracking their period, thus are going to have a blindspot to that need.  If half your team is women, there's a very good chance that someone will have had such an experience.

I'd caution against that kind of thinking. It may be fine to play the odds ("he or she is of x race, he hasn't likely had that experience") on a casual basis. The higher the stakes become, the more time you ought to be prepared to invest in figuring out if a specific individual has knowledge or experience of them. You can make educated assumptions about people, but you shouldn't go about believing that assumptions are "guaranteed" to be correct.
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#22
(02-22-2019, 10:11 PM)tomh009 Wrote:
(02-22-2019, 04:50 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Of course, but certain things mean you are guaranteed NOT to have this experience.  Again, this comes from aggregate. If EVERYONE on your senior management team is a man, then nobody on that team has had experience tracking their period, thus are going to have a blindspot to that need.  If half your team is women, there's a very good chance that someone will have had such an experience.

Yes, to an extent. But even a male can have awareness of female issues (for example), so it's not a totally black-and-white, binary situation, where you are only aware of an issue if you have experienced it yourself.

That's my point, I'm aware of these issues, but that is different from experiencing them oneself.
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#23
(02-23-2019, 08:10 AM)MidTowner Wrote:
(02-22-2019, 04:50 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Of course, but certain things mean you are guaranteed NOT to have this experience.  Again, this comes from aggregate. If EVERYONE on your senior management team is a man, then nobody on that team has had experience tracking their period, thus are going to have a blindspot to that need.  If half your team is women, there's a very good chance that someone will have had such an experience.

I'd caution against that kind of thinking. It may be fine to play the odds ("he or she is of x race, he hasn't likely had that experience") on a casual basis. The higher the stakes become, the more time you ought to be prepared to invest in figuring out if a specific individual has knowledge or experience of them. You can make educated assumptions about people, but you shouldn't go about believing that assumptions are "guaranteed" to be correct.

Again, you're assuming I'm speaking of individuals.  I explicitly said in the next sentence, "in aggregate"...if your entire management team is white men, it is not going to have as broad a set of lived experiences as if it was diverse.

The point is, having diversity on your team brings benefits that cannot be achieved by simply selecting all the best people, if even objectively, the best people are all from one group.
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#24
(02-22-2019, 04:50 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Of course, but certain things mean you are guaranteed NOT to have this experience.  Again, this comes from aggregate. If EVERYONE on your senior management team is a man, then nobody on that team has had experience tracking their period, thus are going to have a blindspot to that need.  If half your team is women, there's a very good chance that someone will have had such an experience.

I am really not sure if makes that much of a difference.

I follow this lady on Twitter who's a real tech guru and is a writer for a major magazine. Some company had posted something on Twitter and I gather they were following each other. The lady took offence it what was written, and was actually shocked that they'd "tweet" what they did (it could be misconstrued as sexual in nature, encouraging rape) . They ended up having a conversation, and it turned out that this business is ran by women, not men like she thought (as only a guy would say such a thing) and the tweet was written by their head of social media, a woman.

Two things I learned: Women don't know themselves as well as we (men) think. Women can be just as nasty and obscene as men, but they're better at creating double meanings (or trying to hide the undertones).

Now as for the period thing: I was married and I knew when my wife was going to have her period even before she did. Just subtle changes that only happened at that time. I remember she was worried that she was pregnant (she didn't want kids at the time) and I am like "Don't worry, you're starting you period in about 3 hours." I was off by about 20 minutes. But here is the thing, every woman is different when it comes to their period. So having females on the team doesn't mean they understand each other. They understand they get *might* periods, that's about it. Each will react to their periods differently and they don't understand why other women behave the way they do (from a woman's mouth "She's such a BITCH on her period"). In my case, getting a medium regular along with allergy pills and a Tylenol was good enough. Nothing else worked -- not chocolate, not flowers (except two days before the period), etc. Some women become super sexual, others don't want to be touched. Forrest Gump would say "Women are like a box of chocolate..."

I guess what I am trying to say is that everyones experience is different -- be it being homeless, being a person of colour or a minority or a new Canadian, being a male or female, being gay, straight, bi-sexual, confused, being a teen, a tween, toddler or elderly person, someone with perfect health or serious health issues (we'll say genetic), abled body or not. There are so many dynamics in play that we might even realize it or see it.

For example, you look at someone privileged like Donald Trump -- he's the most thin skinned person on the planet. Yet other privileged people would never act the way he did (Warren Buffet, for example). You also see disabled people, and they'll get all active into sports that they can do, or busy finding work that they can do, while others in apparent identical shape stay indoors and expect everyone to feel sorry for them. Really, how was it that a black American male was able to become President of the worlds most powerful (and probably racist) country in the world? Someone like Trump won his election because he spoke at a level that was easy for his worshippers to understand. Obama, in my opinion, came across as a genuine gentleman, at he was able to blur those colour lines so well that at the end of the day, people didn't see Obama as black, they saw him, mostly, as a true American that loved his country.

For me, though I really don't involved myself in elections, nor do I exercise my right to vote, it comes down to personality of the individual. Most importantly, their honesty. I guess you could say; would you trust this person to take care of your kid for a week? And really give that some thought. Of our current roster (Ford and Trudeau) I wouldn't want my kids around either of them. I don't think I'd want them around our previous premier (Wynne) but I'd be ok with Harper and McGuinty (and Martin going further back).
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#25
Brian: "You are all individuals!"
Crowd: "We are all individuals!"
Brian: "You have to be different!"
Crowd: "Yes, we are all different!"
Small lonely voice: "I'm not!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHbzSif78qQ
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#26
Some observations regarding Andrew Moraga’s nomination to be the NDP candidate in Kitchener-Centre:

Yes, we are all the same.  Yes, we are all different.  I get that...

So far, the comments here have zeroed in on Moraga’s racial background and that he’s a member of the LGBTQ+  community.  

No one has commented on the fact that he is an environmental advocate and a scientist.  The article also mentions that he is working on his doctorate in social and ecological sustainability at UW.  These are very important qualifications for me.  

Although no one specifically mentioned “Identity Politics,” most of the comments so far have been about his identity.

The accusation of identity politics always comes from the political right-wing or those who unconsciously use right-wing talking points.   They see identity politics as a bad thing.  But what they don’t seem to understand is that everyone has an identity.  The identity of those who accuse others of identity politics are almost always white, heterosexual, male/female, preferably Christian.  However, they come from a place of privilege.  They don’t have to declare that they are a white, heterosexual man or women.  After all, they belong to the natural, god-given order of things.  

I can imagine the uproar from the right-wing if Moraga didn’t mention his sexual orientation until after he won election.  He would be accused of deception and dishonesty.  What to do?

I have never heard anyone from the LGBTQ+ or anyone from marginalized communities accuse someone of identity politics.  That is the exclusive preserve of conservatives.  
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#27
(02-26-2019, 07:15 AM)jgsz Wrote: Some observations regarding Andrew Moraga’s nomination to be the NDP candidate in Kitchener-Centre:

Yes, we are all the same.  Yes, we are all different.  I get that...

So far, the comments here have zeroed in on Moraga’s racial background and that he’s a member of the LGBTQ+  community.  

No one has commented on the fact that he is an environmental advocate and a scientist.  The article also mentions that he is working on his doctorate in social and ecological sustainability at UW.  These are very important qualifications for me.  

Although no one specifically mentioned “Identity Politics,” most of the comments so far have been about his identity.

The accusation of identity politics always comes from the political right-wing or those who unconsciously use right-wing talking points.   They see identity politics as a bad thing.  But what they don’t seem to understand is that everyone has an identity.  The identity of those who accuse others of identity politics are almost always white, heterosexual, male/female, preferably Christian.  However, they come from a place of privilege.  They don’t have to declare that they are a white, heterosexual man or women.  After all, they belong to the natural, god-given order of things.  

I can imagine the uproar from the right-wing if Moraga didn’t mention his sexual orientation until after he won election.  He would be accused of deception and dishonesty.  What to do?

I have never heard anyone from the LGBTQ+ or anyone from marginalized communities accuse someone of identity politics.  That is the exclusive preserve of conservatives.  

I was reading and giving your thoughts careful consideration until you went and did just what you were speaking against  You categorized , or labeled people based on being in a particular group.  I align myself with more conservative politics however, I am extremely aware of my personal bias, and I continue to work on emotional intelligence each and everyday. I treat people fairly and I dont care what their back ground or gender identity is.  I am just respectful to everyone.  Much easier way to live life....  I dont take offense to your comment, even though I feel it is in accurate. (I just wanted to be clear on that,so please continue to comment)
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#28
(02-26-2019, 08:11 AM)Rainrider22 Wrote:
(02-26-2019, 07:15 AM)jgsz Wrote: Some observations regarding Andrew Moraga’s nomination to be the NDP candidate in Kitchener-Centre:

Yes, we are all the same.  Yes, we are all different.  I get that...

So far, the comments here have zeroed in on Moraga’s racial background and that he’s a member of the LGBTQ+  community.  

No one has commented on the fact that he is an environmental advocate and a scientist.  The article also mentions that he is working on his doctorate in social and ecological sustainability at UW.  These are very important qualifications for me.  

Although no one specifically mentioned “Identity Politics,” most of the comments so far have been about his identity.

The accusation of identity politics always comes from the political right-wing or those who unconsciously use right-wing talking points.   They see identity politics as a bad thing.  But what they don’t seem to understand is that everyone has an identity.  The identity of those who accuse others of identity politics are almost always white, heterosexual, male/female, preferably Christian.  However, they come from a place of privilege.  They don’t have to declare that they are a white, heterosexual man or women.  After all, they belong to the natural, god-given order of things.  

I can imagine the uproar from the right-wing if Moraga didn’t mention his sexual orientation until after he won election.  He would be accused of deception and dishonesty.  What to do?

I have never heard anyone from the LGBTQ+ or anyone from marginalized communities accuse someone of identity politics.  That is the exclusive preserve of conservatives.  

I was reading and giving your thoughts careful consideration until you went and did just what you were speaking against  You categorized , or labeled people based on being in a particular group.  I align myself with more conservative politics however, I am extremely aware of my personal bias, and I continue to work on emotional intelligence each and everyday. I treat people fairly and I dont care what their back ground or gender identity is.  I am just respectful to everyone.  Much easier way to live life....  I dont take offense to your comment,  even though I feel it is in accurate. (I just wanted to be clear on that,so please continue to comment)

"A particular group"? I'm sure you're aware that affiliation with the Conservative Party or support for conservative policies is not comparable to membership in LGBTQ or a racialized group? You choose to associate with those people and promote those policies; you were not born into that group and can dissociate at any time. There's also an element of power dynamics that is completely absent from your situation.

If people judge you based on your chosen political affiliation, it's not even in the same league as the experience of racial discrimination.

That said, if you spend time to think about your biases and work to correct them, that's a great thing. But when you choose to group yourself with people who quack like a duck, what do you expect people to do?
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#29
(02-26-2019, 07:15 AM)jgsz Wrote: Some observations regarding Andrew Moraga’s nomination to be the NDP candidate in Kitchener-Centre:
(…)
So far, the comments here have zeroed in on Moraga’s racial background and that he’s a member of the LGBTQ+  community.

No one has commented on the fact that he is an environmental advocate and a scientist.  The article also mentions that he is working on his doctorate in social and ecological sustainability at UW.  These are very important qualifications for me.

The professional qualifications indeed appear to be good (I have not looked into his work yet). But Moraga described himself as a minority member first, and an environmentalist/scientist second, so it's not surprising that this is what the discussion has focused on.
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#30
Bernier's new party managed to take more than 10 percent of the vote in the Burnaby byelection last night, though it achieved much less success in the other two. With enough quality candidates (it wouldn't take many), it would surely be able to significantly impact the Tories' chances of a victory.
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