Westmount Place (50 Westmount N, 9-15 Dietz N, 192-218 Erb W) | 11-25 fl | U/C

[Chris]

I also worry that companies taking away the office environment is the first step to outsourcing a lot of these jobs to cheaper labor overseas.

This isn't anything new. Most companies I know of didn't need a pandemic to do this. The current situation might accelerate this but it's been going on for years.

[westwardloo]

I also worry that companies taking away the office environment is the first step to outsourcing a lot of these jobs to cheaper labor overseas.

This isn't anything new. Most companies I know of didn't need a pandemic to do this. The current situation might accelerate this but it's been going on for years.

I agree that this was already happening in some sectors of the workforce (customer service) but I wasn't aware of it happening for the "higher" skilled office type jobs (accounting, insurance, tech). I know one of the reasons that these jobs have stayed Canada are the quality of work (especiallyin the tech sector). 

I also worry about family life 5 years from now. I love my significant other, but I think our relationship would really be tested if they were to be working beside me 8 hours a day. In my opinion I think this mass exodus to work from home is going to have negative social effects on society. Would not be surprised to see an increase in divorce rates post covid. 
 
I do hope this pandemic will force workplaces to get creative to encourage employees to come back to the office entially. Whether is more flexible hours, allowing work from home some days a week, or providing creative spaces within the office. 

I don't know, I guess I am just thinking too negative, k-w was really hitting its stride pre covid with Google expansion and shopify, but the work from home is going to change how company invest in communities

[dtkvictim]

This isn't anything new. Most companies I know of didn't need a pandemic to do this. The current situation might accelerate this but it's been going on for years.

I agree that this was already happening in some sectors of the workforce (customer service) but I wasn't aware of it happening for the "higher" skilled office type jobs (accounting, insurance, tech). I know one of the reasons that these jobs have stayed Canada are the quality of work (especiallyin the tech sector). 

I also worry about family life 5 years from now. I love my significant other, but I think our relationship would really be tested if they were to be working beside me 8 hours a day. In my opinion I think this mass exodus to work from home is going to have negative social effects on society. Would not be surprised to see an increase in divorce rates post covid. 
 
I do hope this pandemic will force workplaces to get creative to encourage employees to come back to the office entially. Whether is more flexible hours, allowing work from home some days a week, or providing creative spaces within the office. 

I don't know, I guess I am just thinking too negative, k-w was really hitting its stride pre covid with Google expansion and shopify, but the work from home is going to change how company invest in communities

There is a lot to think about here for sure. I think a more permanent shift to work from home will affect the core much more than the suburbs. The type of housing found here was already limited in the types of household structures it could support (primarily young singles or couples, generally without any children), and this is mostly due to size of living space I think. But the small sizes means that every inch of living space is accounted for with a dedicated purpose, and can't be repurposed into a functional home workspace

My home is actually quite large, but it still lacks segregated rooms, so long term work from home trying to focus and take video meetings next to each other is still a no-go. It basically requires 2 bedrooms minimum (1 bedroom, 1 office, and an office space in the living space), and more if you have children. Personally I would feel forced to leave the core, and probably the city in order to get the required space. Although I've also heard of some employers wanting to adjust wages down for remote workers since they can live in lower cost of living areas (which is absurd, they should be paid for the value they create).

At the very least, my experience with even the highest rated tech contractors from some under-developed countries makes me think most tech jobs will be safe for now (though potentially more open to competition from other developed countries).

[nms]

If anything, there will be a cascade of people heading to smaller communities since they can find the living and working space that they need rather than needing to be close by. I would expect that many companies will shift to "once a week" work days for those jobs that require face-to-face (masked or otherwise) meetings.

I wonder if the architects for this project are contemplating going back to the drawing board to expand the size of the units to create "home office and/or den" spaces. Perhaps reduce the dedicated office and commercial floors in favour of larger units overall?

I will be interesting to see how things shake out five years from now. Will smaller town Ontario see a renaissance of sorts as young families return to their hometowns with kids (or kids to be) in tow?

[robdrimmie]

A couple of years ago Manulife collapsed its local offices into the Waterloo location and introduced a significant reduction in static workplaces. Employees no longer had a desk, their team or groups had clusters of desks and in general (there were accommodations made for certain roles that eg, required physical security, and for cases of disability and other exceptionalities). I was at Manulife when the process began, but moved to a different employer before my team was affected, so I don't know how it has gone since.

A few years prior to that experience, I was working at Communitech when they started the process to sublet Google's space. At that time, it was decided that Communitech staff would not have permanent desks (again, as a general rule and with some exceptions) and instead hotel. I also left while this process was underway (I swear neither time was that decision a factor, and in fact while at Communitech I advocated for the hoteling), but at the times I returned for events or visits, it very much seemed like most people were using the same spaces fairly consistently, though again it was pretty role dependant. The back office sorts stabilized and those who interacted more with customers tended to float more.

Manulife is by far the most remote-friendly company I've worked for, probably because they were a multi-national company where teams regularly were located in geographically and chronologically disparate locations, which forces the issue I think. When you start genuinely caring more about the work that is done then where and when it gets done, there's a lot of flexibility.

I don't have any predictions now, and am greatly interested in what new office conventions develop in the next 5-10 years. Pre-pandemic I'd have put money on more and more large organizations moving to flexible, hoteling-based work spaces and clearly now there's even more motivation to do so but once the pandemic eases (whatever that means, hand wave hand wave hand wave) I'm certain that there's going to be a lot of people who are flocking back to office spaces. I think the pandemic and the variances in safety of free movement are really going to emphasize the advantages of very flexible physical environments.

[dtkvictim]

A couple of years ago Manulife collapsed its local offices into the Waterloo location and introduced a significant reduction in static workplaces. Employees no longer had a desk, their team or groups had clusters of desks and in general (there were accommodations made for certain roles that eg, required physical security, and for cases of disability and other exceptionalities). I was at Manulife when the process began, but moved to a different employer before my team was affected, so I don't know how it has gone since.

A few years prior to that experience, I was working at Communitech when they started the process to sublet Google's space. At that time, it was decided that Communitech staff would not have permanent desks (again, as a general rule and with some exceptions) and instead hotel. I also left while this process was underway (I swear neither time was that decision a factor, and in fact while at Communitech I advocated for the hoteling), but at the times I returned for events or visits, it very much seemed like most people were using the same spaces fairly consistently, though again it was pretty role dependant. The back office sorts stabilized and those who interacted more with customers tended to float more.

Manulife is by far the most remote-friendly company I've worked for, probably because they were a multi-national company where teams regularly were located in geographically and chronologically disparate locations, which forces the issue I think. When you start genuinely caring more about the work that is done then where and when it gets done, there's a lot of flexibility.

I don't have any predictions now, and am greatly interested in what new office conventions develop in the next 5-10 years. Pre-pandemic I'd have put money on more and more large organizations moving to flexible, hoteling-based work spaces and clearly now there's even more motivation to do so but once the pandemic eases (whatever that means, hand wave hand wave hand wave) I'm certain that there's going to be a lot of people who are flocking back to office spaces. I think the pandemic and the variances in safety of free movement are really going to emphasize the advantages of very flexible physical environments.

Personally the hotel style you're describing seems quite unpleasant to me, but I could appreciate it working for others. I hope they offered both styles as an option.

There is that building on the edge of Victoria Park I always wondered about, that I looked up recently: Treehaus (https://treehaus.ca/). It got me thinking how great it would be if everyone had the option to rent a private office within walking distance of their homes like this, and then work "remotely". It would give people the option of having a private office (I hate open offices), but also get them out of their home and mingling in shared spaces with people from different organizations. And this way changing jobs doesn't mean you suddenly have to drive an extra 30 minutes because your new office is far away.

[tomh009]

Personally the hotel style you're describing seems quite unpleasant to me, but I could appreciate it working for others. I hope they offered both styles as an option.

Our company (large multinational, probably close to 100K employees globally) is in the process of changing essentially all of its North American offices to the hoteling model.

Exceptions were very difficult at first. In the end, the main two groups that were granted dedicated desks were software development (maybe also IT) and finance. Individuals in other groups don't get exemptions, but can, of course, lay de facto claim to a desk ...

[nms]

I'm interested to see what kind of solidification happens in offices where hoteling is the norm. I expect that robdrimmie's observations are more the norm rather than the exception. In places where there are generally no seating plans, people tend to gravitate to the same space day after day. I've seen this happen in school cafeterias and university lecture halls, albeit two places where people don't typically have a work station and physical files that might need to be at hand rather than in a filing cabinet somewhere else.

[tomh009]

Some of the assumptions underlying the hoteling schemes are that all the information has been digitized -- no paper files, or physical books! -- and that everyone is using a laptop.

Those assumptions don't work for all people and all organizations, though.

[ijmorlan]

Some of the assumptions underlying the hoteling schemes are that all the information has been digitized -- no paper files, or physical books! -- and that everyone is using a laptop.

Those assumptions don't work for all people and all organizations, though.

Yes, I think for some it would be very bad for morale and productivity; but for other situations it would be fine.

It could also differ separately for people and for jobs.

For example, I can imagine a sales job where most of the work is visiting customers, but maybe they need a place to sit for a couple of hours a few times a week. Keeping a whole office reserved all the time probably makes little sense.

On the other hand, if somebody is in the office all day every day working at their desk on varied tasks then I’m much more skeptical and find it hard to believe the savings from doing “fractional reserve” facilities management outweighs the inconvenience of not having a fixed location. Exception for call centres and similar jobs where the employees are intended to be effectively interchangeable.

[Silie]

This Record article first raised the issue in October 2020: Developer trims Waterloo towers, asks to tear down apartment building.

The Waterloo Bylaw in question is Demolition Control Area Bylaw 2013-014 (PDF). 

From the Bylaw:

The intent of demolition control shall be:
a. to prevent the premature loss of housing stock and the creation of vacant parcels of land;
b. to prevent the premature loss of assessment;
c. to retain existing residential units until new uses have been considered and zoning or site plans approved;
d. to prevent block busting within residential neighbourhoods;
e. to prohibit the use of Demolition as a means to reduce maintenance costs; and
f. to prohibit the use of Demolition as a tactic to obtain zoning or other City approvals.

I stand corrected that as of last fall, the building in question that was going to be demolished was vacant at the time of the application. The application was then withdrawn as of November 2.

Looks like 9 Dietz Ave N was vacated on Sept 1. Windows and points of entry are being boarded up. Any sign of the project coming out of pause?

[CP42]

https://outline.com/qGJyPC
This article notes that Waterloo council allowed early demolition of nine homes left vacant on Erb Street West, and an apartment building left vacant on Dietz Avenue, and that the developer had two years to build on Dietz and Erb to meet its obligation to replace demolished units. It faces penalties of up to $20,000 per demolished unit if it does not meet that deadline (2022). City rules permit the developer to build up to 12 storeys on the part of the site at Dietz Avenue and Erb Street West given current zoning. 

Killam's website for this project, dubbed "Westmount Centre" (https://killamreit.com/new-development/w...unt-centre) shows a new building rendering on Erb and Dietz that appears to be 12 storeys and looks different from the initial 11 storey renderings on the corner. It states "Phase 1 Opening in 2024", which leads me to believe they will begin building on this corner in 2022 to avoid the penalties. 

[CP42]

Also - this is definitely not university area. 
Perhaps it can be moved?

[ac3r]

To add on to CP42's post...

[cherrypark]

Backside courtyard is a nice touch, if realized. As always, hoping they actually plant the trees for those that aren't modelled as street trees.

Not really clear if the first floor has some commercial space or if its just lobby/more condos?