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(11-12-2021, 11:10 PM)tomh009 Wrote: Having a design for a grocery store is nice, but still need to find a tenant who wants to open a store in DTK. And now, with Marche Leo's open already, there is some competition already. Maybe they will have a store open there, or maybe not.
A store of that size would be occupied by a Sobeys or a Loblaws. I don’t think a Marche Leo’s will be getting in the way of that if they want to enter the market, and given the population growth in the core in the coming years, seems like not so bad of an opportunity.
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(11-12-2021, 11:15 PM)CP42 Wrote: (11-12-2021, 11:10 PM)tomh009 Wrote: Having a design for a grocery store is nice, but still need to find a tenant who wants to open a store in DTK. And now, with Marche Leo's open already, there is some competition already. Maybe they will have a store open there, or maybe not.
A store of that size would be occupied by a Sobeys or a Loblaws. I don’t think a Marche Leo’s will be getting in the way of that if they want to enter the market, and given the population growth in the core in the coming years, seems like not so bad of an opportunity.
A few years back I had a discussion with a DTK property owner who was trying to get a grocery store tenant, and he told me that at the time the big chains were telling him that DTK needed something like 10,000 more residents in order to warrant a downtown store. DTK has grown since and is definitely still growing. But is it enough? That's a question only the store planners can answer. Until now, nobody has bit, and it hasn't been a question of available space, either.
So, I'm not saying it won't happen, but having a nice retail space for a grocery store doesn't guarantee a grocery store tenant.
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Marche Leo's helps, but it's not a general grocery store for you'd go to day to day (unless you have deep pockets). While Zehrs and Sobeys are still pricey, they're the sort of store most people go to for daily essentials or niche products.
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Off topic, but any reports on how Marche Leo's is doing?
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11-13-2021, 12:27 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-13-2021, 12:28 PM by Rainrider22.)
I was there Thursday and asked them how they are doing. Response "Amazing, we are doing way better then anticipated. We have a core group of customers already that many of them come in everyday"
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11-13-2021, 03:30 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-13-2021, 03:31 PM by taylortbb.)
(11-13-2021, 10:23 AM)tomh009 Wrote: A few years back I had a discussion with a DTK property owner who was trying to get a grocery store tenant, and he told me that at the time the big chains were telling him that DTK needed something like 10,000 more residents in order to warrant a downtown store. DTK has grown since and is definitely still growing. But is it enough? That's a question only the store planners can answer. Until now, nobody has bit, and it hasn't been a question of available space, either.
So, I'm not saying it won't happen, but having a nice retail space for a grocery store doesn't guarantee a grocery store tenant.
The proposed grocery store is part of the last phase, so it's a pretty long ways out. A building like that is probably 4 years from start of construction to full occupancy, and they haven't even started selling earlier phases. By the time it's open I have little doubt that DTK will have added 10k residents.
I also think they have to have a tenant already interested. It's one thing to try and attract a grocery store tenant to a generic retail space, but this space is purpose designed to be a grocery store. I don't think they'd build loading docks, or design the parking garage around a grocery store, purely speculatively. They'd just make it another floor of office, rather than risking a whole floor of space on a very specific speculative tenant.
Maybe the space could also be used by a big box retailer, but we're even less likely to see a Best Buy or something setup in DTK than we are a grocery store.
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(11-13-2021, 10:24 AM)ac3r Wrote: Marche Leo's helps, but it's not a general grocery store for you'd go to day to day (unless you have deep pockets). While Zehrs and Sobeys are still pricey, they're the sort of store most people go to for daily essentials or niche products.
The prices at Marche Leo's are quite similar to Zehrs or Sobeys, so not unreasonable for most people (at least for most people that can afford to live in one of the newer developments in the downtown area), and they have a decent selection of daily staples -- it's not Vincenzo's. It's pretty close to what I would expect of an urban-format Zehrs or Sobeys.
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(11-13-2021, 03:30 PM)taylortbb Wrote: (11-13-2021, 10:23 AM)tomh009 Wrote: A few years back I had a discussion with a DTK property owner who was trying to get a grocery store tenant, and he told me that at the time the big chains were telling him that DTK needed something like 10,000 more residents in order to warrant a downtown store. DTK has grown since and is definitely still growing. But is it enough? That's a question only the store planners can answer. Until now, nobody has bit, and it hasn't been a question of available space, either.
So, I'm not saying it won't happen, but having a nice retail space for a grocery store doesn't guarantee a grocery store tenant.
The proposed grocery store is part of the last phase, so it's a pretty long ways out. A building like that is probably 4 years from start of construction to full occupancy, and they haven't even started selling earlier phases. By the time it's open I have little doubt that DTK will have added 10k residents. Station Park alone will have just under 2,000 units by the time the store is completed - of which many will have multiple people living in them. Say that’s about 3,000 people there, or a third of the requirement alone. Then consider garment street, Charlie west, DTK, Q Condos, Young Condos, 30 Francis, Victoria and Park, and all the others going in and 10,000 doesn’t seem very unreasonable in the next 5-6 years at all.
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(11-13-2021, 03:30 PM)taylortbb Wrote: I also think they have to have a tenant already interested. It's one thing to try and attract a grocery store tenant to a generic retail space, but this space is purpose designed to be a grocery store. I don't think they'd build loading docks, or design the parking garage around a grocery store, purely speculatively. They'd just make it another floor of office, rather than risking a whole floor of space on a very specific speculative tenant.
I would also assume a big grocer will want to go into a space that’s a dedicated grocery store, like the one in Station Park, rather than some makeshift location elsewhere.
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I like how there's three distinct designs here, like A-B is a different project from C-D, which is different from E. Despite them being linked and all from the same developer.
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11-13-2021, 09:34 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-13-2021, 09:35 PM by ac3r.)
That's what I love about this one. It won't look anything like The Metz or Barrelyards, which are just cut and paste designs. C and D don't look that good (they remind me of like...a beachfront condo in Miami or something) but still, it's variety. E will definitely be amongst the best buildings downtown (even if they don't use COR-TEN steel haha).
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Thanks for all the picture updates
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Great pictures!
Did anyone happen to see the aerial pictures VanMar and Condo Culture posted on their IG? I noticed the (enclosed!) plunge pool/swim spa is can be seen if you zoom in. Really cool to see
Mac
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