Downtown outdoor spaces

[panamaniac]

The posts in another thread about the proposed plaza in front of the new Transit Hub have me wondering - should the City be looking to create a new plaza/green space in the Eastend?  If I held the magic development wand, I think I'd be looking at the block bounded by King, Cameron, Duke, and Madison.

I would go further east ... and turn Rockway into a huge park. The city could sell some small parts of it (e.g. portions by Courtland Ave) to a developer and use the proceeds to create a fantastic park.

Yes, I've long thought that should happen to Rockway.  I'd turn it into an arboretum.  And, like you, I'd sell the portion across Courtland to provide funding for the project.

[tomh009]

Ugh...cardinal directions like "east" and "west" have no meaning in Kitchener.
I do think there is more need for smaller local parks. Large parks like that also induce driving, etc.

Our streets don't run east-west or north-south, in spite of their names, and the angles vary as well, so no solution is perfect. But further along King St E seems like "further east" to me!

As for rockway, it definitely could be made into a park, but rockway gardens are already quite nice.

I do think there is more need for smaller local parks. Large parks like that also induce driving, etc.

Rockway Park would be easily reachable by the IHT.

Some smaller parks (how small?) could also be created using the proceeds from the Rockway real estate sale. But as our core begins to extend further east (!) along King St in the future, an anchor park like Rockway would be priceless. The gardens are nice for flowers, but it doesn't really accommodate other activities the way, say, Victoria Park does.

[danbrotherston]

Ugh...cardinal directions like "east" and "west" have no meaning in Kitchener.
I do think there is more need for smaller local parks. Large parks like that also induce driving, etc.

Our streets don't run east-west or north-south, in spite of their names, and the angles vary as well, so no solution is perfect. But further along King St E seems like "further east" to me!

Yes, my favourite is Lancaster which runs very close to North-South but is labeled East-West. To me, further along King is "South"...and I am on the "West" side. I think that is more generally correct (outside of DTK the grid such as it is, is more closely aligned to that direction). But it disagrees with all the road names. In general I try to avoid cardinal directions, but occasionally still slip into them, causing confusion and misunderstanding.

As for rockway, it definitely could be made into a park, but rockway gardens are already quite nice.

I do think there is more need for smaller local parks. Large parks like that also induce driving, etc.

Rockway Park would be easily reachable by the IHT.

Some smaller parks (how small?) could also be created using the proceeds from the Rockway real estate sale. But as our core begins to extend further east (!) along King St in the future, an anchor park like Rockway would be priceless. The gardens are nice for flowers, but it doesn't really accommodate other activities the way, say, Victoria Park does.

I agree gardens don't fulfill all the possible uses of a park, although I will say, I think the gardens are under appreciated. One nice weekend day a few weeks back my partner and I went to Rockway Gardens. It was near deserted, only a handful of other people. On the way down, we passed Victoria Park which was absolutely packed to the gills (and most people arriving in cars leading to excessive dangerous traffic), so I'm guessing that most people simply don't think of going to Rockway....certainly I didn't think of it till that day.

As for smaller parks, I'm talking about Neighbourhood parks, anywhere from the size of a tiny parklet like Gordon Green[1] or Homewood Green[2] (which don't even show on Google Maps as green space) all the way up to something like Cherry Park or Civic Centre Park or Weber Park.

Yes, Rockway Gardens is accessible from the IHT, but so is Victoria Park, and Victoria Park is constantly slammed with cars. The reality is that if something isn't within walking distance (less than ten minutes) it's almost certain that the vast majority of people will drive, even if it is to a park. Further, for children, it is essential that there are local parks, as our roads are designed to exclude children, meaning they are dependent on their parents to take them to larger parks.

It's amazing when you start walking around some neighbourhoods how many of these things smaller parks that you find, that you would only know when you live somewhere and walk. Of course, some areas of the city are better served than others.

[1] https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.4561152,-...312!8i6656

[2] https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.4427623,-...312!8i6656

[panamaniac]

The main traditional use of Rockway Gardens is as background for wedding pictures. It has never really been a recreation space (a relaxation space, perhaps). A few years ago, the Horticultural Society (HS) installed a couple of outdoor chess tables, although I’ve never seen them used. I think the HS hosts occasional events and an annual plant sale, but I think their resources are limited.

Since we’ve made Rockway GC into a park, I’ll cancel the new Eastend square, but I’ll expand Market Green to include the old supermarket and its parking lot. And let’s not forget the small plaza in front of the preserved portion of the Onward Mfg building.

[danbrotherston]

The main traditional use of Rockway Gardens is as background for wedding pictures.  It has never really been a recreation space (a relaxation space, perhaps).  A few years ago, the Horticultural Society (HS) installed a couple of outdoor chess tables, although I’ve never seen them used.  I think the HS hosts occasional events and an annual plant sale, but I think their resources are limited. 

Since we’ve made Rockway GC into a park, I’ll cancel the new Eastend square, but I’ll expand Market Green to include the old supermarket and its parking lot.  And let’s not forget the small plaza in front of the preserved portion of the Onward Mfg building. 

Lol...just a little ambition eh.

Yeah, I mean, that is what I've seen people doing. But there's literally no reason not to go there for a walk or a picnic. It's a lot bigger than I thought. Most people doing to Victoria Park seem to be doing that, the playgrounds are full of course, but so is the rest of the park.

[panamaniac]

It's not DTK, but the complex of parks made up of Meinzinger Park, Mausser Park (especially), Concordia Park, and Lakeside Park, centred on Homer Watson/Stirling/Greenbrook, seems very underutilized to me. Meinzinger has come a long way from its days as just a snow dump, and Lakeside has improved over the years, but the four parks together would be considerably larger than Victoria Park, I think, and see only a fraction of the use.

[tomh009]

It's not DTK, but the complex of parks made up of Meinzinger Park, Mausser Park (especially), Concordia Park, and Lakeside Park, centred on Homer Watson/Stirling/Greenbrook, seems very underutilized to me.  Meinzinger has come a long way from its days as just a snow dump, and Lakeside has improved over the years, but the four parks together would be considerably larger than Victoria Park, I think, and see only a fraction of the use.

Those parks are indeed nice, and I walk there (particularly Lakeside) fairly often, even though it's about a 20-minute walk away for me. But Lakeside and Concordia really only have trails (and not enough of them, given the parks' size!) and not any other activities. Meinzinger has soccer fields for organized games but not much else. And Mausser not even that.

I would love to see the city buy a few properties to connect Mausser to Lakeside, provide decent street crossings (Stirling much easier than Homer Watson) and make these parks into a coherent park complex:

• A reasonable network of trails, not just ones running through
  
• Activities for kids (little and not so little)
  
• Picnic areas
  
• Signage!
  

Currently the parks are not enough to be a destination for most people, and the actual suburban population bordering them is fairly small, so they will not get much usage.

P.S. Add Schumacher Greenway to the list!

[panamaniac]

It's not DTK, but the complex of parks made up of Meinzinger Park, Mausser Park (especially), Concordia Park, and Lakeside Park, centred on Homer Watson/Stirling/Greenbrook, seems very underutilized to me.  Meinzinger has come a long way from its days as just a snow dump, and Lakeside has improved over the years, but the four parks together would be considerably larger than Victoria Park, I think, and see only a fraction of the use.

Those parks are indeed nice, and I walk there (particularly Lakeside) fairly often, even though it's about a 20-minute walk away for me. But Lakeside and Concordia really only have trails (and not enough of them, given the parks' size!) and not any other activities. Meinzinger has soccer fields for organized games but not much else. And Mausser not even that.

I would love to see the city buy a few properties to connect Mausser to Lakeside, provide decent street crossings (Stirling much easier than Homer Watson) and make these parks into a coherent park complex:

• A reasonable network of trails, not just ones running through
  
• Activities for kids (little and not so little)
  
• Picnic areas
  
• Signage!
  

Currently the parks are not enough to be a destination for most people, and the actual suburban population bordering them is fairly small, so they will not get much usage.

P.S. Add Schumacher Greenway to the list!

Indeed - "Borden Parkway" could have been much more than it is.  Imagine an enjoyable pedestrian link (along a renaturalized Shoemaker Creek) between the Schneider lands and Lakeside Park!  At the moment, the pokey play area toward the end of Borden Parkway is the only amenity, afaik.

[tomh009]

Oh, and I would love for the city to buy 658 Stirling S from the current owner, before it's developed, and keep it as part of the park.

[panamaniac]

Oh, and I would love for the city to buy 658 Stirling S from the current owner, before it's developed, and keep it as part of the park.

 I went to grade school with a kid who's family home was on (or near) that address.  I don't know what the story is with that lot - it has sat empty for decades.

[tomh009]

Oh, and I would love for the city to buy 658 Stirling S from the current owner, before it's developed, and keep it as part of the park.

I went to grade school with a kid who's family home was on (or near) that address.  I don't know what the story is with that lot - it has sat empty for decades.

It's the only private property on that side of Stirling S (in that stretch, it doesn't look like there has been anything there for decades at least -- and the area looks quite naturalized. I don't think the land should be all that expensive. If, for example, the city had a windfall from selling off part of Rockway ...

[danbrotherston]

I went to grade school with a kid who's family home was on (or near) that address.  I don't know what the story is with that lot - it has sat empty for decades.

It's the only private property on that side of Stirling S (in that stretch, it doesn't look like there has been anything there for decades at least -- and the area looks quite naturalized. I don't think the land should be all that expensive. If, for example, the city had a windfall from selling off part of Rockway ... 

While we're at it, there's no reason for Homer Watson to be a four lane divided highway north of Ottawa, some significant reconfiguration there could free up 3.5 acres of land.  Yes, acres.

And yes, that is the land covered by half of Homer Watson from the highway interchange to Stirling...man we waste absolute GOBS of land on roads.

[tomh009]

While we're at it, there's no reason for Homer Watson to be a four lane divided highway north of Ottawa, some significant reconfiguration there could free up 3.5 acres of land.  Yes, acres.

And yes, that is the land covered by half of Homer Watson from the highway interchange to Stirling...man we waste absolute GOBS of land on roads.

Homer Watson was originally envisioned in the 1960s as a four-lane arterial road, continuing through Lakeside Park and connecting to (I think) Belmont Ave (also four lanes). Fortunately, that plan was cancelled -- but that's how we were left with a short stretch of four-lane divided road. And with a light traffic volume even now, 60 years later.

Now, what could be done here fairly easily is to move all the traffic to one side, and change the other side to parkland, from Stirling to the WB expressway on-ramp, extending Mensinger Park substantially.

[KevinL]

Oh, and I would love for the city to buy 658 Stirling S from the current owner, before it's developed, and keep it as part of the park.

 I went to grade school with a kid who's family home was on (or near) that address.  I don't know what the story is with that lot - it has sat empty for decades.

My family moved to Kitchener in '83 and it's been empty every time I saw it. I only barely remembered that it IS private property.

[BruceAshe]

The posts in another thread about the proposed plaza in front of the new Transit Hub have me wondering - should the City be looking to create a new plaza/green space in the Eastend?  If I held the magic development wand, I think I'd be looking at the block bounded by King, Cameron, Duke, and Madison.

Residents of King East have been wanting to get some kind of green space in the area for awhile. There is a property on Cedar (by Nova Era across from the Market) is currently for sale and even if that could be turned into some small parkette or something, it would be great. There is the tiny bit of green space at Cedar/Weber but it really only has two benches and not much else, plus it faces Weber so it's not exactly a spot you want to spend time in. Maybe one of the many developments that are planned will eventually have something. Any time we want to go to a park we typically end up going to the Central Frederick neighbourhood (Brubacher Park/Suddaby/Firefighter Park). Something a bit closer would be nice.