General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours

[dtkvictim]

The cenotaph surround, recast.

That's quite a few more trees gone! Does the concrete cover all the way out to the street now, or is there still room for greenery like before? It's hard to tell from the photo.

[panamaniac]

Does the cenotaph renovation project have its own thread?

[tomh009]

It does not. Neither does the Vogelsang Green renovation.

[tomh009]

The cenotaph surround, recast.

That's quite a few more trees gone! Does the concrete cover all the way out to the street now, or is there still room for greenery like before? It's hard to tell from the photo.

I think there is no room at Frederick next to the office building. There is some room at the Frederick/Duke corner if I recall correctly, and then a lot of room next to the federal government building on Duke St.

[taylortbb]

The cenotaph surround, recast.

That's quite a few more trees gone! Does the concrete cover all the way out to the street now, or is there still room for greenery like before? It's hard to tell from the photo.

There's a render on https://www.kitchener.ca/en/city-service...reen-.aspx# . The concrete appears to come all the way to the Frederick sidewalk, but there will be trees along the building side.

[dtkvictim]

Thanks. I find that slightly disappointing. I prefer having greenery breaking up areas into more personal feeling spaces, rather than vast expanses of concrete/asphalt. It makes it feel more like a mini park that way too.

I'm curious if the old trees were removed just so they could put a perfect circle in, or if perhaps they were damaging the buildings. If it's the former, I wish they would have worked around the existing trees.

[danbrotherston]

Thanks. I find that slightly disappointing. I prefer having greenery breaking up areas into more personal feeling spaces, rather than vast expanses of concrete/asphalt. It makes it feel more like a mini park that way too.

I'm curious if the old trees were removed just so they could put a perfect circle in, or if perhaps they were damaging the buildings. If it's the former, I wish they would have worked around the existing trees.

I agree, more greenery would be nice, but I'm sure it drives up long term maintenance costs.

That being said, we would have less need to separate spaces from roadways if we had less traffic.

I'm not an expert in trees, but on street view, they appear to be healthy, but are very close to the building.

[bgb_ca]

I thought it was expected NOT to last - its transitory nature is part of the art, surely?

It's a thermoplastic coating (see the first photo for it being applied) so it certainly will not wear off very quickly, but I don't know what specific product they are using or what the expected lifetime is.

So the first snowplow to go over it will destroy it?

[robdrimmie]

The rainbow crosswalk that crosses Joesph at Gaukel is also a thermoplastic coating. It cost $12,000 and was installed in May of 2018. This isn't novel or untested technology.

https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/rainbow-cro...-1.3950437

From a time-frame perspective, the rainbow crosswalk that Cambridge declined to do last year was expected to last 7 - 10 years. It seems reasonable to expect this artwork could last that long as well.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener...-1.5238813

[bgb_ca]

Yea, if they apply it right. I've also seen ones that look like garbage after the first winter (See king street uptown bike lanes)

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4651868,...312!8i6656

unless those are using a different technology there, which if that is the case, they should stop using what they used for those bike lanes/crosswalks.

[danbrotherston]

Yea, if they apply it right. I've also seen ones that look like garbage after the first winter (See king street uptown bike lanes)

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4651868,...312!8i6656

unless those are using a different technology there, which if that is the case, they should stop using what they used for those bike lanes/crosswalks.

AFAIK it is the same technology, and the uptown bike lanes was an application error. I did at one point hear, but have not seen confirmed, the contractor was being held liable for the error. I assumed this meant they would re-apply it, but I have not seen that happen, maybe they were just refunding us for the work.

[tomh009]

Yea, if they apply it right. I've also seen ones that look like garbage after the first winter (See king street uptown bike lanes)

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4651868,...312!8i6656

unless those are using a different technology there, which if that is the case, they should stop using what they used for those bike lanes/crosswalks.

AFAIK it is the same technology, and the uptown bike lanes was an application error. I did at one point hear, but have not seen confirmed, the contractor was being held liable for the error. I assumed this meant they would re-apply it, but I have not seen that happen, maybe they were just refunding us for the work.

Was that the same contractor that applied the crosswalk markings for the LRT? Or is that one a different technology. Those did not last at all, they looked like crap right when they were applied (sloppy application) and then were half worn off after the first winter.

[bgb_ca]

AFAIK it is the same technology, and the uptown bike lanes was an application error. I did at one point hear, but have not seen confirmed, the contractor was being held liable for the error. I assumed this meant they would re-apply it, but I have not seen that happen, maybe they were just refunding us for the work.

Was that the same contractor that applied the crosswalk markings for the LRT? Or is that one a different technology. Those did not last at all, they looked like crap right when they were applied (sloppy application) and then were half worn off after the first winter.

Indeed, the while line crosswalks looked like crap, but the red brick pattern crosswalks looked rather nice and seemed to hold up.

[BruceAshe]

The rainbow crosswalk that crosses Joesph at Gaukel is also a thermoplastic coating. It cost $12,000 and was installed in May of 2018. This isn't novel or untested technology.

https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/rainbow-cro...-1.3950437

From a time-frame perspective, the rainbow crosswalk that Cambridge declined to do last year was expected to last 7 - 10 years. It seems reasonable to expect this artwork could last that long as well.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener...-1.5238813

There's also a crosswalk on Lancaster beside Suddaby school that was out in in 2016 and it's holding up. Not as bright as it was when first installed, but traffic and plows haven't destroyed it.

[danbrotherston]

AFAIK it is the same technology, and the uptown bike lanes was an application error. I did at one point hear, but have not seen confirmed, the contractor was being held liable for the error. I assumed this meant they would re-apply it, but I have not seen that happen, maybe they were just refunding us for the work.

Was that the same contractor that applied the crosswalk markings for the LRT? Or is that one a different technology. Those did not last at all, they looked like crap right when they were applied (sloppy application) and then were half worn off after the first winter.

The LRT crossings I believe are a similar product, but a different application, in addition to the surface treatment they also used a hot stencil to emboss a brick pattern into the asphalt surface.

However, some line markings well as our sharrows often use a similar or identical thermoplast product. It does wear well, but it's not invincible, and most of the time it is not in the direct wear tracks from tires, although as others have pointed out it is used for crosswalks and they seem to do okay.

I have no idea if it is the same contractor, but I would expect the contractor who made the error to be able to do it right, I am guessing but all of these road treatments probably depend a lot on conditions, the road must be cleaned, dry, and the right temperature, a contractor pressured for time might try to do it in less optimal conditions just to get it done, and hope for the best.