The COVID-19 pandemic

[tomh009]

Yes, this is true. Issue is that it seems cheaper to ship these workers from poor nations to Canada, house them, feed them, and pay them whatever, than hire Canadians to do the same job. Farm work is hard, no doubt though. And I am guessing that not many would do this for minimum wage or even close to it. Perhaps the government needs to look at incentives for farmers and farm workers to make hiring local for enticing.

(...)

And I'm not totally sure it would even solve anything. If they managed to find enough Canadians willing to do back breaking labor for low pay, and house them in dorms, we'd still be in a situation with a power imbalance in the relationship and living conditions which would result in spreading of this virus.

I've been reading some articles from Europe on this same topic, the inability to get migrant agricultural workers. They farmers have been trying to hire locally, with increased pay (not minimum) but not many people in developed countries are interested in this kind of work, partly because it really is hard work, partly because it's seasonal. And much of the work is done at piece rates, not hourly -- there was a quote from a local strawberry-picking employee who was shocked because the Ukrainian pickers were able to pick more than twice as many berries in the same amount of time.

And, as Dan says, replacing migrant workers with Canadian might not solve the COVID-19 issue anyway.

[KevinL]

I'm not picky about where the workers come from, so long as they're paid appropriately for their labour and housed humanely. During this pandemic, though, 'humane housing' is trickier to prevent infection and I don't think enough options are being looked into.

[tomh009]

I'm not picky about where the workers come from, so long as they're paid appropriately for their labour and housed humanely. During this pandemic, though, 'humane housing' is trickier to prevent infection and I don't think enough options are being looked into.

For agricultural workers' temporary housing, I don't think you can really avoid some kind of dormitory housing. And even if reasonably roomy, they will still be prone to infections spreading. Test, wash hands, wear masks, test again. It's all you can really do.

[robdrimmie]

there was a quote from a local strawberry-picking employee who was shocked because the Ukrainian pickers were able to pick more than twice as many berries in the same amount of time.

Something a lot of people don't seem to consider is how skilled migrant agricultural labour is. Some of these teams have been working together literally for generations. And they don't only work on one farm here then go back to their home countries, necessarily. Some teams follow the same work seasonally, so when our growing season is up they'll go somewhere else. That means they're picking year-round and therefore working on improving their yield year-round. Since they're working together so much of the time, they are able to optimize within the teams as well.

I think a lot of folks think that migrant labour in agriculture is what we see in tv and movies where there's like a bunch of people standing on a street corner and someone in a pickup rolls up and says "okay I need three today!" and they climb in the back. These people and teams are very rarely like that sort of ad hoc workforce. They're extraordinarily good at the work they do and they add tremendous value to our country (and others where they operate).

[jamincan]

CBC's Frontburner podcast had an episode about the situation with migrant farm workers recently, and it seems pretty clear that more can and should be done.

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/frontburner/cov...-1.5623162

[danbrotherston]

there was a quote from a local strawberry-picking employee who was shocked because the Ukrainian pickers were able to pick more than twice as many berries in the same amount of time.

Something a lot of people don't seem to consider is how skilled migrant agricultural labour is. Some of these teams have been working together literally for generations. And they don't only work on one farm here then go back to their home countries, necessarily. Some teams follow the same work seasonally, so when our growing season is up they'll go somewhere else. That means they're picking year-round and therefore working on improving their yield year-round. Since they're working together so much of the time, they are able to optimize within the teams as well.

I think a lot of folks think that migrant labour in agriculture is what we see in tv and movies where there's like a bunch of people standing on a street corner and someone in a pickup rolls up and says "okay I need three today!" and they climb in the back. These people and teams are very rarely like that sort of ad hoc workforce. They're extraordinarily good at the work they do and they add tremendous value to our country (and others where they operate).

I want to +1 this...

[robdrimmie]

Just to be explicit, I did not mean to suggest that Tom does not recognize the skill of migrant workers. I have no reason to believe that is the case. I am sorry that I wrote things in such a way as to leave that as a possible interpretation, I should have been more clear.

[bgb_ca]

Looks like the US wants the border reopened. I hope the government tells them to F right off.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/canadian...-1.5019295

[tomh009]

Just to be explicit, I did not mean to suggest that Tom does not recognize the skill of migrant workers. I have no reason to believe that is the case. I am sorry that I wrote things in such a way as to leave that as a possible interpretation, I should have been more clear.

It's OK, I didn't interpret it that way at all. We both agree that there is significant skill involved in much of the agricultural work. In addition to hard work!

[tomh009]

Looks like the US wants the border reopened. I hope the government tells them to F right off.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/canadian...-1.5019295

I say we build a wall. And make Trump pay for it!

[KevinL]

An opinion poll shows over 80% of Canadians want the border to remain closed. It will.

[ijmorlan]

An opinion poll shows over 80% of Canadians want the border to remain closed. It will.

Canada really is different from the United States. I doubt 80% of Americans would agree the Earth is roughly spherical; or if they would, they wouldn’t if the Lyin’ King told them it wasn’t.

[ac3r]

And whether our relationship with the migrant workers is abusive or not might depend on who you ask

Didn't we have a bunch of them living in an abandoned house in Cambridge a while ago?

[tomh009]

No Waterloo Region reports on weekends.

Ontario reported 130 new cases today, for a seven-day average of 134 new cases. 267 recoveries and six deaths translated to a decrease of 143 active cases, for another low of 1,456, after a weekly total change of -430. 29,522 tests for a 0.4% positivity rate. The positivity rate is averaging 0.6% for the past seven days.

The new cases are 0.4% of the total and 8.9% of the number of active cases. New cases averaging 8.0% of actives over the past seven days.

Hospital population back up to 128 (+11) but the ICU population dropped to 31 (-3).

[Coke6pk]

Perhaps the government needs to look at incentives for farmers and farm workers to make hiring local for enticing.

In order to get these workers, the Canadian employers have to jump through a lot of hoops to get an LMO (Labour Market Opinion) from the Government in order to qualify for work permits.  The process is not cheap for the employer either.  If there are Canadian workers to take the jobs, they wouldn't get the LMO.  Problem is, we (Canadians) don't want these jobs.

I remember when the Oil Sands were big, they had to get foreign workers at the fast food restaurants in Fort McMurray as there were no Canadians willing to relocate there for minimum wage.

Coke