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Harmony Lunch
#16
(01-15-2020, 01:09 PM)urbd Wrote: This land is owned by HIP Developments, so I am assuming that the main reason for the closure is to redevelop the site. Fat Sparrow likely had 2 year lease/agreement with HIP and they just didn't renew it? Also Uptown 21 is now closed for good (brown bag fridays just finished a few weeks ago), and that building is wholly owned by the Benningers themselves so I bet they are planning a new restaurant there that will incorporate some of Harmony's favourites.

The final brown bag Friday is this coming Friday.
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#17
Without speculating too much, could it be as simple as rent going up (due to LRT etc), and the plan in place became no longer feasible? 

Economics and ROI are a big part of running any type of business and with that many on the go sometimes you need to focus on the critical path. 

Disclaimer: wasn't a huge fan of the original blend or the new one but still ate there plenty of times and had some good memories with people that enjoyed it.
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#18
(01-15-2020, 01:09 PM)urbd Wrote: This land is owned by HIP Developments, so I am assuming that the main reason for the closure is to redevelop the site. Fat Sparrow likely had 2 year lease/agreement with HIP and they just didn't renew it? Also Uptown 21 is now closed for good (brown bag fridays just finished a few weeks ago), and that building is wholly owned by the Benningers themselves so I bet they are planning a new restaurant there that will incorporate some of Harmony's favourites.

Sad about uptown 21

What exactly is the border of the property that HIP owns there?
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#19
(01-16-2020, 08:00 AM)Spokes Wrote:
(01-15-2020, 01:09 PM)urbd Wrote: This land is owned by HIP Developments, so I am assuming that the main reason for the closure is to redevelop the site. Fat Sparrow likely had 2 year lease/agreement with HIP and they just didn't renew it? Also Uptown 21 is now closed for good (brown bag fridays just finished a few weeks ago), and that building is wholly owned by the Benningers themselves so I bet they are planning a new restaurant there that will incorporate some of Harmony's favourites.

Sad about uptown 21

What exactly is the border of the property that HIP owns there?

No idea, actually. If anyone knows I'd be curious to know as well.
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#20
(01-15-2020, 10:24 AM)robdrimmie Wrote: Fat Sparrow owns several restaurants uptown (and elsewhere). They're very active in the local community and participate in tons of food and cultural events.  They're good people who are invested in building our community. If they say that the construction impacted this restaurant more than Nick and Nat's and Marbles, I'm strongly inclined to believe them. They really don't seem to be assholes who are just dipping in to exploit a brand. Restaurants are really hard, and they did their best to reinvent and update a local institution to keep it alive.

I don't want to paste them as assholes, either, but blaming something which ended the day their restaurant opened (the LRT construction) is a bit suspicious, don't you think?

All of their other restaurants have done well, except for this one, but it's not difficult to see that the general tenor about the experience at the new Harmony Lunch is one of disappointment and feeling that you don't get what you pay for. I suspect that is the reason it wasn't doing well, but I doubt that we'll get other information about the performance of their other Uptown venues to be able to compare.
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#21
(01-16-2020, 02:51 PM)Bytor Wrote: I don't want to paste them as assholes, either, but blaming something which ended the day their restaurant opened (the LRT construction) is a bit suspicious, don't you think?

So, the exact quote is "Unfortunately, continual and prolonged LRT and streetscape construction throughout the Uptown and more specifically directly in front of Harmony Lunch have proven to be an insurmountable challenge." (https://andrewcoppolino.com/waterloo/tha...d-so-long/). That's two factors, without weighting, listed chronologically.

Even though construction ceased on a specific date, the deterrent effects of that construction would continue for a while. Patterns take time to be re-established, and people avoiding Uptown due to construction wouldn't have rushed back. They'd have established new habits that explicitly avoid the area and without intentionally wanting to change those habits I suspect most people would continue avoiding it.

We also don't know how the construction impacted any of the opening process. Whatever work was done on the place to update it during the transition between owners may have been impacted and started them off a little bit further back than they expected. Fundamentally, we simply don't have all the information they do.

I do agree with the general sentiment expressed in the thread that the Harmony experiment almost certainly failed for more reasons than just construction. I especially think there's a lot not being said about HIP's plans for the area and how lease timing that and potential agreements about ground floor commercial space might impact Fat Sparrow's ability to speak plainly.

To be clear, I've no beef with speculation or suspicion. We have almost no information and are going to interpret it based on any number of different factors. They may well be wrong but I don't think they're lying, and that's an important distinction to me.

Skepticism is pretty much always good in my book though, and I understand why others are.
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#22
The owner (Fat Sparrow) was on 570 with and was saying that the return of business was coming faster to the other location's in the Uptown. Harmony was much slower to regain and who knows how much longer it would take. Expenses being what they are across the board they needed to slow the bleeding.
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#23
(01-16-2020, 06:56 PM)white_brian Wrote: The owner (Fat Sparrow) was on 570 with and was saying that the return of business was coming faster to the other location's in the Uptown. Harmony was much slower to regain and who knows how much longer it would take. Expenses being what they are across the board they needed to slow the bleeding.

Sounds sensible
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#24
(01-16-2020, 06:56 PM)white_brian Wrote: The owner (Fat Sparrow) was on 570 with and was saying that the return of business was coming faster to the other location's in the Uptown. Harmony was much slower to regain and who knows how much longer it would take. Expenses being what they are across the board they needed to slow the bleeding.

Now that only begs the question "Why was it not returning as fast to the new Harmony Lunch?"

Could it have anything to do with ho so many of the reviews online about how it was a disappointing experience and pricey for what you got?
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#25
Ahhh. Another sad case of a business failing because of "LRT construction". The two-phase King Street reconstruction project was not related to ION whatsoever (started construction right after ION, yes). Either way, the idea of businesses in Uptown absolutely needing external visitors to survive is pretty flawed. None of these sad stories would even happen if more people lived within Uptown and supported these businesses, you know, like in most downtowns. People who fight density are the people that are the saddest when they see businesses like this one go, but they don't want more people to live closer to the businesses in the first place. Ironic.
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#26
The OG Harmony Lunch had been open since the 1930s, right? Surely they had some construction and tough times to deal with over those years... I never went to the new one so I dunno what they changed but it can be tough to take over an existing business.
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#27
The original harmony owners owned the land/building too right? If so, they had much less overhead every month even though they were essentially leaving money on the table.
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#28
(01-17-2020, 05:48 PM)urbd Wrote: Ahhh. Another sad case of a business failing because of "LRT construction". The two-phase King Street reconstruction project was not related to ION whatsoever (started construction right after ION, yes). Either way, the idea of businesses in Uptown absolutely needing external visitors to survive is pretty flawed. None of these sad stories would even happen if more people lived within Uptown and supported these businesses, you know, like in most downtowns. People who fight density are the people that are the saddest when they see businesses like this one go, but they don't want more people to live closer to the businesses in the first place. Ironic.

Yes, yes, yes....all very true. And yeah, UPW has changed over the past few years. Though it still has some good shops and bylaw and the police picking up vagrants and dropping them in DTK. I remember when I used to work at City Hall and Waterloo dropped off the same 3 guys 4 times in one day. But hey, at least their uptown doesn't have to deal with those people....
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#29
We went in for lunch or supprer, quite a number of times in the last two years. IMO it was the prices and the product.

Two people for a sit down meal would be around $30+ plus add in a gratuity. $35+ or more dollars in a hamburger joint is the real reson for the failure.

Students wouldn't be able to be continually attracted to return. Take a family of four and now you are looking at $60-70+ for hamburgers, fries and a milkshake.

Just my $40 worth of opinion.
"I would like to apologize to anyone i have not offended. Please be patient. I will get to you shortly."
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#30
They definitely struggled to straddle the needs of "old guard" and the "new guard" clientele. I went one final time before it closed the first time and one time when it reopened. The food quality was good in both cases. The sticker shock of the price was definitely holding the old guard from returning (though there was the blue plate special). I think that they were going in the right direction to build new traditions, such as the live music, but clearly it wasn't enough.

Restaurants are tough to get going and unless you have deep pockets, you have to be able to wait a while to build up your regulars.
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