Charles St GRT terminal redevelopment

[Rainrider22]

It is interesting that philanthropy in Waterloo goes towards, The Balsillie School of International Affairs, the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics, et al... All very good and important investments. However, social services, not so much... You wouldn't ever want a socially disadvantaged person to be in Uptown Waterloo, it wouldn't be good for business... I also believe that the head management people for the Region of Waterloo health who strongly supported the Safe Injection Site in Kitchener should have their offices located in the upstairs of the facility. This way they get first hand experience of their ideals and beliefs instead of having to reap the rewards vicariously through employee reports.

[jeffster]

An article about the next steps for the former terminal.

https://www.therecord.com/news-story/970...-for-at-le

I think a new larger arena, like Bud Gardens would be perfect there.  There is lots of parking, transit, everything you need.... And the restaurants would benefit huge !!!

EDIT NOTE: For some reason, I thought I had posted this already, but apparently I did not (as I was looking for my post and it wasn't there -- some just some thoughts on this property not being great for an area)....

Maybe -- I am not 100% sure it would be large enough.

Secondly, we've been spoiled with The Aud and it's free parking (mostly). I am unsure how some would feel about having to walk distances to get to arena, though it doesn't seem like a huge issue for London (but I think they have way more parking than Kitchener).

Another issue is the cost of parking for the workers. There are a lot of part-timers at The Aud that do drive to work, and paying $15 for parking out of their wages for a 4 hour shift wouldn't be worth it. And same with full-timers, who likely wouldn't be happy with forking over $180 monthly for parking.

Again, I am unsure how London deals with these matters, or even Guelph maybe, but it is something to think about.

Others posted that it could be a good site for a convention site. I do agree that it might work as such, as the tri-city area is lacking this. I can't imagine us using the entire footprint being used, as urbd pointed out that this is 12,000 m2, or about 129,000 sf, but even if we were to use 100,000 for convention centre space, with a decent sized public square, I think it might work. There could be underground parking, perhaps 2 floors of convention centre space (so 200,000 square feet), and perhaps add a 20 floor hotel on one side and a 30+ floor condo/apartment on the other side. Obviously this would take deep pockets and I am under that either the city or the region would want to go into a PPP (since the city/region would do the convention centre, and privately the hotel and condo/apartment would be separate). They could ease development charges for a condo/apartment IF a certain percentage was low-income housing.

But as for an auditorium, I still think that The Aud will end up using Centennial for a new facility and perhaps somehow convert the old Aud into a large indoor parking garage and keep the twin pads.

[ijmorlan]

I really like the notion of using the space to extend Victoria Park, and all the things Sam Nabi's been advocating.

I've posted this before, but here is my long term vision for that area...connecting the park is one aspect, but re-orienting the entire area around a pedestrian plaza could be amazing, reconfiguring the roads, could get us even more space.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?m...00004&z=17

Thanks for re-posting that. I always forget that Joseph St. only runs from Victoria to Queen (with a dead end north of Victoria) one block south/west of Charles so closing it (along with Gaukel) to motor vehicle traffic at the park is probably fine.

And now I’m looking at Ontario St. and wondering if it is really needed — not a lot of driveways on that short street.

[jgsz]

I really like the notion of using the space to extend Victoria Park, and all the things Sam Nabi's been advocating.

That would be my first choice.

[danbrotherston]

I've posted this before, but here is my long term vision for that area...connecting the park is one aspect, but re-orienting the entire area around a pedestrian plaza could be amazing, reconfiguring the roads, could get us even more space.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?m...00004&z=17

Thanks for re-posting that. I always forget that Joseph St. only runs from Victoria to Queen (with a dead end north of Victoria) one block south/west of Charles so closing it (along with Gaukel) to motor vehicle traffic at the park is probably fine.

And now I’m looking at Ontario St. and wondering if it is really needed — not a lot of driveways on that short street.

Yeah, I am figuring that because it connects to David, and because we want Gaukel gone, Keeping Ontario/David is a compromise...but it is also planned to be a major bike route (in lieu of Gaukel which will be more pedestrianized), certainly I'm in favour of the idea, but it probably depends on how far in the future this whole thing is happening.

[danbrotherston]

I've posted this before, but here is my long term vision for that area...connecting the park is one aspect, but re-orienting the entire area around a pedestrian plaza could be amazing, reconfiguring the roads, could get us even more space.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?m...00004&z=17

Oh, yes! I'd forgotten that it was you that suggested some of the ideas I really like as well. I'm sorry for that, and I'll do better at crediting in the future.

I'm honestly not seeking credit....I didn't intend to come off that way, I am simply trying to push my plan, I'd really love to see that area be less car oriented....selfishly I live there after all. Turning the Charles Term (including my god damn bus stop) into a parking lot is my worst nightmare and I'm living it right now. Wide lanes on Joseph mean people go pretty fast along there too...certainly not as bad as other areas, but plenty of folks boot it from the stop sign to the lights...

Point is, I don't care who gets credit, I just care that something more people centric gets built.

[robdrimmie]

I'm honestly not seeking credit....I didn't intend to come off that way

You didn't. I just like to attribute correctly when possible, even if only in my brain.

[tomh009]

I understand the need for assisted living.  We already have a lot in that area.  Why not build more assisted living in the City of Waterloo ?   It always seems that Kitchener has to address all the social assistance between the cities...

I think the city of Kitchener owns the land and Kitchener Housing has experience building units and supporting them. I don't think the region or the city of waterloo have anything comparable but would be happy to see more units built in Waterloo.

No. The region owns the transit property. The city owns only the sliver on the Charles St side.

[westwardloo]

Personally I my top 3 uses for the site would be:

1) a purpose built facilities for The Museum/ KWAG maybe add a little extra performing arts space. I think region needs to start looking at investing more in the arts. Having a diverse city with different amenities will attract wider range of people to call this area home. I hear a lot of people my age question what there is to do in this city. They prefer to live in ottawa toronto or Hamilton that can provide unique entertainment options. 
2) would be a hotel convention centre maybe with a beautiful plaza
3) would be build two condos with decent heights. While providing a public plaza or a connection to the park. 

Personally I am not against a new arena. I just think that it can be built in the aud parking lot. The whole area could become an arena district in itself.

[tomh009]

I really like the notion of using the space to extend Victoria Park, and all the things Sam Nabi's been advocating.

I've posted this before, but here is my long term vision for that area...connecting the park is one aspect, but re-orienting the entire area around a pedestrian plaza could be amazing, reconfiguring the roads, could get us even more space.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?m...lAzNrm-Kba&ll=43.44823395544161%2C-80.49648275000004&z=17

There is much to like about this proposal. But it eliminates two east-west connections through/next to the park, leaving nothing between Charles St and Highland Rd/West Ave for motor vehicle traffic. That may be a good thing but I think it would be very difficult to get support for that at city council.

[danbrotherston]

I've posted this before, but here is my long term vision for that area...connecting the park is one aspect, but re-orienting the entire area around a pedestrian plaza could be amazing, reconfiguring the roads, could get us even more space.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?m...00004&z=17

There is much to like about this proposal. But it eliminates two east-west connections through/next to the park, leaving nothing between Charles St and Highland Rd/West Ave for motor vehicle traffic. That may be a good thing but I think it would be very difficult to get support for that at city council.

Today yes, some day in the future, I hope not. (Also, east-west is ambiguous, you mean Joseph and Jubilee?)

That being said, Joseph should be easy because it's connections are limited, and Charles could easily be the through route.  Jubilee I'm sure will be the bigger fight because it's a main through route, but it's also through a park, which should also be a major no-no, but I mean, that's only in a sane rational world.

[ac3r]

Something mixed use and cultural would be nice to see. You could have an amazing development there and it's right beside the park. With two LRT stops nearby, they could make a great mixed use development, even including a public square and it would certainly attract a lot of people all year round. They could build a tower that could house a hotel, shops, cultural/artistic or similar creative spaces etc. Add another tower for some rental units...including those for lower income individuals. Throw in some spaces for shops or restaurants on the first floor, utilizing any sort of public square/park entrance to help pedestrian activity.

Really, there are many options. Anything other than condos or an auditorium (I don't know why we'd need the latter when The Aud is literally a 10 minute drive away) would be a nice change to the downtown. I might just get out some tracing paper and sketch out random ideas now haha. It's such a valuable piece of land and I wouldn't want it to go to waste.

[panamaniac]

Personally I my top 3 uses for the site would be:

1) a purpose built facilities for The Museum/ KWAG maybe add a little extra performing arts space. I think region needs to start looking at investing more in the arts. Having a diverse city with different amenities will attract wider range of people to call this area home. I hear a lot of people my age question what there is to do in this city. They prefer to live in ottawa toronto or Hamilton that can provide unique entertainment options. 
2) would be a hotel convention centre maybe with a beautiful plaza
3) would be build two condos with decent heights. While providing a public plaza or a connection to the park. 

Personally I am not against a new arena. I just think that it can be built in the aud parking lot. The whole area could become an arena district in itself.

That would put paid to themuseum's expansion plan (has the purchase of the bank building gone ahead yet?).  How about a City of Kitchener annex of the Regional History Museum (lots of their holdings are never seen)?  Or, more ambitious, how about a Canadian Museum of Design (why not in Kitchener?!)?

[Momo26]

This is a magnificent opportunity for the city to do something great. I agree with a few posters that we don't need condos only here.

I'm thinking a piece here that can become the new focal point of DTK, a gateway to the performing arts and the park. But do we already have centres that are simply being underutilized? We don't want to become repetitive. The frontage/look should be award worthy. An aesthetic masterpiece of epic proportions.

No longer shall DTK live the in shadows of Uptown Waterloo.

[tomh009]

There is much to like about this proposal. But it eliminates two east-west connections through/next to the park, leaving nothing between Charles St and Highland Rd/West Ave for motor vehicle traffic. That may be a good thing but I think it would be very difficult to get support for that at city council.

Today yes, some day in the future, I hope not. (Also, east-west is ambiguous, you mean Joseph and Jubilee?)

East-west, of course: this is Kitchener after all