21 Weber St W + 149-151 Ontario St N | 20 fl | Proposed

[panamaniac]

You would think it's that simple, but a number of people in the comments have proposed suing the developer for discrimination. Because they're "discriminating" against car owners.

I have yet to understand why people feel so strongly about how other people live.

Good luck with that,  let me know how it turns out.....Do they know they would have to retain a law firm and put money where their mouth is.....

I think the owner should appease them with 6 parking spots for car share programs only !!

That's an excellent idea - the City should require it as a "benefit", either on the project site or nearby.

[Spokes]

CTV has a story on this building, https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/proposed-ki...-1.4556487 . As expected the Facebook comments are terrible, with hundreds of people commenting that this should be illegal. Many think two spots per unit should be the minimum.

Illegal.  Oh my goodness.  Get over yourselves

[ac3r]

I'm a little confused why CTV is reporting this now. The original Record article in May did talk about the parking.

The development is also unusual in that it is the first in modern Kitchener not to require any on-site parking.

City council approved the first parts of a massive revamp of the city's zoning bylaw earlier this week, including changes to parking requirements. The new zoning doesn't require any parking in new residential developments downtown.

The changes aim to encourage people to walk, cycle and use transit. They were sparked by a major parking study a couple of years ago that showed Kitchener had been requiring far more parking than was actually used.

There are plenty of parking options for anyone moving into the new development who does own a car, said city planner Garett Stevenson.

It will be interesting if this is approved without any parking spots. It's a great idea, car-loving Facebook pundits be damned.

[jeffster]

I'm a little confused why CTV is reporting this now. The original Record article in May did talk about the parking.

The development is also unusual in that it is the first in modern Kitchener not to require any on-site parking.

City council approved the first parts of a massive revamp of the city's zoning bylaw earlier this week, including changes to parking requirements. The new zoning doesn't require any parking in new residential developments downtown.

The changes aim to encourage people to walk, cycle and use transit. They were sparked by a major parking study a couple of years ago that showed Kitchener had been requiring far more parking than was actually used.

There are plenty of parking options for anyone moving into the new development who does own a car, said city planner Garett Stevenson.

It will be interesting if this is approved without any parking spots. It's a great idea, car-loving Facebook pundits be damned.

No idea why CTV just picked up on this now, other than to say, poor reporting. Again. So no surprise.

As for the no parking thingy, I have no issues with it. If the city is smart, they'll "OK" it, as they could rent out spots at some of their garages (Duke and Ontario would be an obvious choice, as would Charles and Benton, and the COP SHOP parking garage) they aren't fully utilized at night, which I assume when people need the parking the most.

Just doing the math, if 100 spots were rented, that would net the city about $17,000/month, or $204,000/year. That's good coin for saying yes to a good idea and yes for the environment Forward thinking folks.

[rangersfan]

A staff report for this project can be found here:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w...9104062442

[Rainrider22]

Reading the report, city staff are content with the proposal I am surprised they consider the parking allowance a minor adjustment though let's hope this goes through it will be interesting to watch the results

[panamaniac]

Reading the report, city staff are content with the proposal  I am surprised they consider the parking allowance a minor adjustment though  let's hope this goes through  it will be interesting to watch the results

The report already has gone through City Council, no?

[Bjays93]

Wait so this project is going to have no parking? I’m not saying that’s a bad idea per se, but is there anywhere else that has done this? Are there any large buildings in a place like Toronto with absolutely no parking at all?

This seems like a bit of a bold move to me but at the same time could potentially draw larger projects and buildings into the area as figuring out where to fit all the parking spaces without digging to far down would be a non problem. 

I feel like the downtown transportation isn’t quite good enough yet to accommodate for this though

[tomh009]

Welcome Bjays93!

It's not so much that they expect everyone to take transit, but they are leveraging the city parking garage that is a block away at Ontario and Duke, which has significant spare capacity.

[taylortbb]

Wait so this project is going to have no parking? I’m not saying that’s a bad idea per se, but is there anywhere else that has done this? Are there any large buildings in a place like Toronto with absolutely no parking at all?

Yep, Toronto has a few, and there even on the new builds with parking most units don't have a parking space. I'm reading 30% having parking is becoming the norm in downtown Toronto. There's also a recent high rise in Calgary with no parking. 

It's not so much that they expect everyone to take transit, but they are leveraging the city parking garage that is a block away at Ontario and Duke, which has significant spare capacity.

I'm not sure about that. I think expectation is definitely that 90%+ of residents won't have a car. The Duke/Ontario garage actually regularly has a waiting list for monthly parking passes. It's Charles/Benton, KPL, and Market garages that have lots of extra space, but they're further away.

There's already lots of units in DTK without parking, so it doesn't seem unreasonable. I already feel like most people I know that live in DTK don't have a car. Some use car share, but a lot just take transit, walk, or cycle everywhere.

[ijmorlan]

The Duke/Ontario garage actually regularly has a waiting list for monthly parking passes.

They aren’t charging enough if that is the case. They should be charging enough that the waiting list goes away without reducing quantity demanded so much that the place isn’t near full.

[Bjays93]

Welcome Bjays93!

Thanks for the welcome and the insight!

As for parking in DTK I really didn’t think there was much available, as now all lots in downtown must be paid parking

[taylortbb]

The Duke/Ontario garage actually regularly has a waiting list for monthly parking passes.

They aren’t charging enough if that is the case. They should be charging enough that the waiting list goes away without reducing quantity demanded so much that the place isn’t near full.

Kitchener Parking has an extremely broken pass pricing model in so many ways. There's one price for all surface lots, and a separate higher price for all garages, regardless of location.

A purely demand-based model would probably have the Charles/Water surface lot be the most expensive parking in DTK. Instead, selling it off for re-development will likely generate angry protest from those that park there because they won't want to spend the extra $30/month that a garage parking spot costs. I'd rather see garages be the cheaper option, so we can say "look at all these empty surface lots, let's re-develop them!" as people take the garage parking. 

Also, the market value of parking at the Market or KPL garages is clearly not the same as Duke/Ontario. If there was differential pricing between garages the demand would spread itself out, as some people walk further for cheaper parking.

[KevinL]

Kitchener Parking has an extremely broken pass pricing model in so many ways. There's one price for all surface lots, and a separate higher price for all garages, regardless of location.

I have to assume they price based on maintenance costs - a garage is more intensive to maintain than an asphalt lot.

[taylortbb]

Kitchener Parking has an extremely broken pass pricing model in so many ways. There's one price for all surface lots, and a separate higher price for all garages, regardless of location.

I have to assume they price based on maintenance costs - a garage is more intensive to maintain than an asphalt lot.

That seems likely, but I strongly feel that it's a totally inadequate way to view the costs. The forgone revenue of selling an empty lot downtown is effectively a cost. There's also clearly excess demand for surface parking, given they have huge waiting lists. If Kitchener really wants to run their parking enterprise like a business that should be a strong indicator it's time to raise prices.

At the same time, why do they charge for garages in the evening when surface lots are free? I suspect the garage costs are pretty fixed regardless of whether people park in them in the evening, when there's clearly excess supply. Nevermind that all their EV charging stations are in the garages, penalizing those that at least try to be more environmentally friendly in their use of cars, by requiring they pay for parking to be able to pay for charging.