The Barrel Yards | 25 fl | U/C

[panamaniac]

Yes, a place to walk through rather than to.

[jeffster]

Sometimes I wonder what Barrel Yards will be like when it's fully built out.  At the moment, it manages to be both upmarket and dreary.  Very Waterloo, but one hopes for more.

Wow....well, at least it's not what's going on in the university district. I think Barrel Yards is one of the nicer projects in Waterloo.

[plam]

Sometimes I wonder what Barrel Yards will be like when it's fully built out.  At the moment, it manages to be both upmarket and dreary.  Very Waterloo, but one hopes for more.

Wow....well, at least it's not what's going on in the university district. I think Barrel Yards is one of the nicer projects in Waterloo.

There are a lot of good restaurants opening in Northdale. Urban design could be better.

[jeffster]

Wow....well, at least it's not what's going on in the university district. I think Barrel Yards is one of the nicer projects in Waterloo.

There are a lot of good restaurants opening in Northdale. Urban design could be better.

Of course, lot's of student population.

What places, other than Morty's (as I know that place well) do you recommend? Morty's obviously for wings, tho.

[taylortbb]

What places, other than Morty's (as I know that place well) do you recommend? Morty's obviously for wings, tho.

• Mimo Thai tops my list. Best Thai curry in KW by far, as good as the best of Toronto.
  
• Bao is a popular spot.
  
• Gol's Lanzhou Noodle is a great hand-pulled Chinese noodle spot. Originally run by immigrants in Montreal, this is their second location.
  
• Sugar Marmalade is notable for being an Asian dessert place, and probably the only dessert place open until 2am in KW.
  
• Bogda makes authentic Uyghur food, and is probably the only local place to. They're known for their noodles.
  
• Countless bubble tea places are in the university area, and nowhere else in KW.
  

There's lots more, but this is off topic for the thread. Almost all those places are in newly built Northdale retail spaces, and many of them inside the neighbourhood (rather than University/King/Columbia).

Northdale is definitely becoming one of the most interesting areas in KW. The design may not always be great, but the pedestrian-first retail in the middle of the neighbourhood makes me think that in 10-20 years it'll be a destination in a way Barrel Yards won't be.

[robdrimmie]

Northdale is definitely becoming one of the most interesting areas in KW. The design may not always be great, but the pedestrian-first retail in the middle of the neighbourhood makes me think that in 10-20 years it'll be a destination in a way Barrel Yards won't be.

Thank you for describing it like this. I've had similar thoughts but haven't been able to articulate it well. I can agree with the general impression that the urban design is largely a shitshow but there's a lot of very interesting corners in that neighbourhood and I think the fact that student populations tend to be a lot less concerned about how a neighbourhood changes lends itself to a place where more experiments (many of which will be terrible, no doubt) can occur with less push back about building heights and more natural pressure for walkability-driven experiences. Most of the population moves around on a daily basis with active modes of transportation and opportunities to cater to that will occur. 

Barrel Yards is an intentional, planned neighbourhood, explicitly targeting people of a certain income level and with specific lifestyle preferences. It's got a lot going for it in many ways and the contrast between the two styles of making spaces and the two (broad) types of residents they're trying to attract is pretty interesting.

[urbd]

Northdale is definitely becoming one of the most interesting areas in KW. The design may not always be great, but the pedestrian-first retail in the middle of the neighbourhood makes me think that in 10-20 years it'll be a destination in a way Barrel Yards won't be.

Thank you for describing it like this. I've had similar thoughts but haven't been able to articulate it well. I can agree with the general impression that the urban design is largely a shitshow but there's a lot of very interesting corners in that neighbourhood and I think the fact that student populations tend to be a lot less concerned about how a neighbourhood changes lends itself to a place where more experiments (many of which will be terrible, no doubt) can occur with less push back about building heights and more natural pressure for walkability-driven experiences. Most of the population moves around on a daily basis with active modes of transportation and opportunities to cater to that will occur. 

Barrel Yards is an intentional, planned neighbourhood, explicitly targeting people of a certain income level and with specific lifestyle preferences. It's got a lot going for it in many ways and the contrast between the two styles of making spaces and the two (broad) types of residents they're trying to attract is pretty interesting.

You should check out the Northdale Urban Design and Built Form guidelines. It's one of the most detailed and comprehensive urban design documents in Southern Ontario, and way more thought out than Barrelyards for example. The execution of the buildings on the other hand, seems to be lacking because developers still choose to build for students first and foremost so they try to cut corners and maximize unit counts in every way possible. I agree with taylortbb that Northdale is becoming an interesting and diverse urban neighbourhood within Waterloo, I'm excited to see it in a few years.

Northdale urban design guidelines here: https://www.waterloo.ca/en/government/re...elines.pdf

[Watdot]

You should check out the Northdale Urban Design and Built Form guidelines. It's one of the most detailed and comprehensive urban design documents in Southern Ontario, and way more thought out than Barrelyards for example. The execution of the buildings on the other hand, seems to be lacking because developers still choose to build for students first and foremost so they try to cut corners and maximize unit counts in every way possible. I agree with taylortbb that Northdale is becoming an interesting and diverse urban neighbourhood within Waterloo, I'm excited to see it in a few years.

Northdale urban design guidelines here: https://www.waterloo.ca/en/government/re...elines.pdf

It is really cool to see mixed zoning within developments on side streets in this neighbourhood.  However, you are exactly right when you say "developers still choose to build for students first and foremost".  As a result, businesses constantly come and go on the ground level commercial space, creating an image of failure.  Really it's the (non) mix of residents in this neighbourhood.  The City still needs to get non-students into Northdale to help make the urban design (zoning) work.  Unfortunately the private sector isn't helping.  It's a very transient community, which isn't healthy in the long run.

[panamaniac]

Northdale is definitely becoming one of the most interesting areas in KW. The design may not always be great, but the pedestrian-first retail in the middle of the neighbourhood makes me think that in 10-20 years it'll be a destination in a way Barrel Yards won't be.

Thank you for describing it like this. I've had similar thoughts but haven't been able to articulate it well. I can agree with the general impression that the urban design is largely a shitshow but there's a lot of very interesting corners in that neighbourhood and I think the fact that student populations tend to be a lot less concerned about how a neighbourhood changes lends itself to a place where more experiments (many of which will be terrible, no doubt) can occur with less push back about building heights and more natural pressure for walkability-driven experiences. Most of the population moves around on a daily basis with active modes of transportation and opportunities to cater to that will occur. 

Barrel Yards is an intentional, planned neighbourhood, explicitly targeting people of a certain income level and with specific lifestyle preferences. It's got a lot going for it in many ways and the contrast between the two styles of making spaces and the two (broad) types of residents they're trying to attract is pretty interesting.

I would have thought that neighbourhood amenities like outdoor cafes, performance spaces, high-end retail and services go with those income levels/lifestyle preferences, but Barrel Yards seems devoid of same, unless you include Proof.

[urbd]

Thank you for describing it like this. I've had similar thoughts but haven't been able to articulate it well. I can agree with the general impression that the urban design is largely a shitshow but there's a lot of very interesting corners in that neighbourhood and I think the fact that student populations tend to be a lot less concerned about how a neighbourhood changes lends itself to a place where more experiments (many of which will be terrible, no doubt) can occur with less push back about building heights and more natural pressure for walkability-driven experiences. Most of the population moves around on a daily basis with active modes of transportation and opportunities to cater to that will occur. 

Barrel Yards is an intentional, planned neighbourhood, explicitly targeting people of a certain income level and with specific lifestyle preferences. It's got a lot going for it in many ways and the contrast between the two styles of making spaces and the two (broad) types of residents they're trying to attract is pretty interesting.

I would have thought that neighbourhood amenities like outdoor cafes, performance spaces, high-end retail and services go with those income levels/lifestyle preferences, but Barrel Yards seems devoid of same, unless you include Proof.

Barrelyards was designed as a luxury suburban community which happens to be in high rise buildings in the middle of the city. This is the problem when one developer buys a huge piece of land and develops it all by themselves, instead of severing and selling smaller pieces for smaller individual buildings that become part of the urban fabric. Keep in mind that what we see being built at the Barrelyards now is the product of a planning vision from 15 to 20 years ago when the city was trying to get someone to develop the land. Another problem with huge master planned developments - that the planning and construction world take so long that when the projects are finished they reflect a different era of design and urbanism.

[robdrimmie]

You should check out the Northdale Urban Design and Built Form guidelines. It's one of the most detailed and comprehensive urban design documents in Southern Ontario, and way more thought out than Barrelyards for example. The execution of the buildings on the other hand, seems to be lacking because developers still choose to build for students first and foremost so they try to cut corners and maximize unit counts in every way possible. I agree with taylortbb that Northdale is becoming an interesting and diverse urban neighbourhood within Waterloo, I'm excited to see it in a few years.

Northdale urban design guidelines here: https://www.waterloo.ca/en/government/re...elines.pdf

Thank you for linking those, and for fixing my terminology! I'll be better at it in the future.

[robdrimmie]

I would have thought that neighbourhood amenities like outdoor cafes, performance spaces, high-end retail and services go with those income levels/lifestyle preferences, but Barrel Yards seems devoid of same, unless you include Proof.

So, this is groundless speculation and definitely biased, but my impression of the Barrelyards is that the people who buy there, as a broad and unfair in any number of ways generalization, are the same people who would typically live in suburbs but don't have children (either won't ever or no longer do). I don't think they get out and explore, I think they drive to work and then drive home and maybe they drive out to the Boardwalk to watch a movie or they drive to the St Jacob's market on Saturday mornings, but I don't think they walk to a cafe. Maybe they'll drive downtown to checkout the Starbucks when it opens.

[tomh009]

I only know a handful of people who rent (or have rented) at Barrel Yards, but those people certainly did walk and/or cycle to other urban destinations. It doesn't contain any significant retail but it is still quite walkable.

[urbd]

I would have thought that neighbourhood amenities like outdoor cafes, performance spaces, high-end retail and services go with those income levels/lifestyle preferences, but Barrel Yards seems devoid of same, unless you include Proof.

So, this is groundless speculation and definitely biased, but my impression of the Barrelyards is that the people who buy there, as a broad and unfair in any number of ways generalization, are the same people who would typically live in suburbs but don't have children (either won't ever or no longer do). I don't think they get out and explore, I think they drive to work and then drive home and maybe they drive out to the Boardwalk to watch a movie or they drive to the St Jacob's market on Saturday mornings, but I don't think they walk to a cafe. Maybe they'll drive downtown to checkout the Starbucks when it opens.

I live very close to Barrelyards and know current and past tenants there. You are half correct, as in yes most of them drive very regularly and moved in from the suburbs, but also they do get out and explore and walk to businesses in Uptown and Waterloo Park often ... that is when they are here - many university professors and other academics live there, which means that they travel a lot and their units are empty for months at a time. This makes it hard to connect with the community. Also a number of units are rented furnished for shorter stays by visiting business people or scholars. Overall, the physical form of the development plus the luxury level and prices of the rentals, it does not surprise me that the whole development will always be a disconnected island in Uptown.

[robdrimmie]

So, this is groundless speculation and definitely biased, but my impression of the Barrelyards is that the people who buy there, as a broad and unfair in any number of ways generalization, are the same people who would typically live in suburbs but don't have children (either won't ever or no longer do). I don't think they get out and explore, I think they drive to work and then drive home and maybe they drive out to the Boardwalk to watch a movie or they drive to the St Jacob's market on Saturday mornings, but I don't think they walk to a cafe. Maybe they'll drive downtown to checkout the Starbucks when it opens.

I live very close to Barrelyards and know current and past tenants there. You are half correct, as in yes most of them drive very regularly and moved in from the suburbs, but also they do get out and explore and walk to businesses in Uptown and Waterloo Park often ... that is when they are here - many university professors and other academics live there, which means that they travel a lot and their units are empty for months at a time. This makes it hard to connect with the community. Also a number of units are rented furnished for shorter stays by visiting business people or scholars. Overall, the physical form of the development plus the luxury level and prices of the rentals, it does not surprise me that the whole development will always be a disconnected island in Uptown.

 I'm very happy to hear that I'm wrong about how often the folks there do get out and about, thank you.