Amalgamation

[panamaniac]

There was a mayor (North Bay maybe?) that got into it with the Firefighters Union.  They went to arbitration, and despite the city not being able to afford it, still got big city wages.

The mayor then said, fine, in your 24 hour shift, you will be required to be working the full 24 hours, be it attending calls for service or other assigned duties.  Firefighters were told to bring in their meals from home to prepare, but grocery shopping on government time will cease.  He also added that they can't afford to pay staff to sleep, so they will be expected to be awake at all times during their shift, and if they need rest, they can use their gracious amounts of sick time or speak to the union about renegotiating a shorter shift.  One member asked is they can't sleep, why do they have beds in the fire hall.  He replied "That's a good question.  I'll have them removed and donated to a local shelter."  I loved it!  Never saw any follow up, but would love to know if his hard-line stance held.

Coke

"Employ to rule" - interesting concept.

[tomh009]

Some additional reading:

Sault Ste Marie extends olive branch to firefighters union
https://www.sootoday.com/local-news/city...ion-583298

New wage settlement pushes most Kitchener firefighter salaries over $100K
https://www.therecord.com/news-story/871...over-100k/

Why do we have more firefighters fighting fewer fires?
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/...ewer-fires

[Coke6pk]

Interesting articles (esp. the Fraser Institute one).

Maybe DoFo will move Fire Services back to the Insurance Companies to save tax dollars, "For The People"

Coke

[PhilippAchtel]

During the April 25 meeting of council in which the award was announced, fire chief Mike Figliola suggested the city’s firefighters would not be allowed to sleep during the new 24-hour shifts, despite management’s position during negotiation that stated 24 hour-long shifts were ‘dangerous’ due to the potential for sleep deprivation.

At the time, Figliola said safety was the number one concern and he would remove firefighters from service and conduct callbacks for those firefighters showing signs of sleep deprivation.

Well, that doesn't sound at all like a manager cutting off their nose to spite their face. I'm sure the chief got over their in-the-moment tantrum and worked to build bridges with their staff...

CAO acknowledges management has 'not handled communication nor implementation well'

Hmmm.

Of course, the role of firefighters is changing. They now increasingly respond to non-fire calls such as medical emergencies and motor vehicle accidents. In Ontario, from 2000 to 2012, the number of fire-related calls fell by 15 per cent while non-fire-related calls increased by 24 per cent.

...


But consider this. During the same 16-year period, the number of firefighters in Canada grew to 32,400 from 25,900—a 25 per cent increase, outpacing the country’s overall population growth (16 per cent). Unfortunately, without comparative national fire data after 2002, we can’t say for certain whether Canada is experiencing an Ontario-style trend (more firefighters for fewer fires).

But we do know the trend of more firefighters and fewer fires is occurring in the United States and internationally. Thanks to updated building codes and better technology (fire-proofing materials, smoke alarms, sprinklers, etc.), the number of fires everywhere seems to be on the wane.

Better technology leads to fewer fires, which leads to Frasier Institute types to demand additional workload on firefighters to protect "mah tax dollars", which leads to increased reliance and spending on firefighters, which leads to Frasier Institute types to demand a reduction on fire services spending to protect "mah tax dollars".

This forum needs the thinking guy emoji.

[tomh009]

I read a whole lot of articles on the Sault Ste Marie negotiations. The union demanded 24h shifts, and said that the firefighters would be ready and alert for the full shift -- without any sleep time. So that statement originally came from the union.

I'm no fan of Frasier institute, but the number of fires dropping does appear to be a broad trend. And if that number is dropping, maybe we need to think about how many fire fighters are really needed. Sault Ste Marie cut back significantly (through attrition) after losing the arbitration described in the article.

[jeffster]

Does anyone have a figure on the number of employees any of the cities have?

Kitchener has close to 2,000 employees.

Keep in mind, though, that includes students and very part-timers. That would also include all outside (apart from city hall and the KOF) facilities like community centres, arenas, cemeteries, pools and any other sports and other buildings (as I am sure I am leaving things out) field that requires staffing. I think if you look a unionized members (CUPE 68 (the "outside workers") and CUPE 791 (the "office workers") + management + fire services and you're probably looking around 1,000 easily (plus add some for council, for example).

Next time that I login into PeopleSoft at work, I'll look at the cheque numbers and I'll get back with a more accurate number (791 workers & management are every 2 weeks (perhaps firefighters & council as well), CUPE 68 and part-timers are every week -- so I should be able to figure it out that way), though unsure if cheque numbers include non-employee's (such as outside contractors or other business expenses).

I would imagine for Waterloo it would be a little less per population as they have very few public facilities, and Cambridge would be very similar to Kitchener. So ball parking it, maybe Waterloo has 800 altogether, and Cambridge maybe 1,200.

[Ace]

Does anyone have a figure on the number of employees any of the cities have?

Kitchener has close to 2,000 employees.

Keep in mind, though, that includes students and very part-timers. That would also include all outside (apart from city hall and the KOF) facilities like community centres, arenas, cemeteries, pools and any other sports and other buildings (as I am sure I am leaving things out) field that requires staffing. I think if you look a unionized members (CUPE 68 (the "outside workers") and CUPE 791 (the "office workers") + management + fire services and you're probably looking around 1,000 easily (plus add some for council, for example).

Next time that I login into PeopleSoft at work, I'll look at the cheque numbers and I'll get back with a more accurate number (791 workers & management are every 2 weeks (perhaps firefighters & council as well), CUPE 68 and part-timers are every week -- so I should be able to figure it out that way), though unsure if cheque numbers include non-employee's (such as outside contractors or other business expenses).

I would imagine for Waterloo it would be a little less per population as they have very few public facilities, and Cambridge would be very similar to Kitchener. So ball parking it, maybe Waterloo has 800 altogether, and Cambridge maybe 1,200.

I was looking to do an analysis of percentage of city staff on the fire department vs. the percentage on the public salary disclosure. While it's probably not a great reporting metric, I was just curious.

Of the 294 City of Kitchener employees exceeding $100,000 in 2017, 184 (63%) were on the fire department. I would imagine fire accounts for a much smaller fraction of overall city staff. 

However, their salaries are probably based on 40-44hr weeks while other staff are closer to 35-40hr.

[jeffster]

Kitchener has close to 2,000 employees.

Keep in mind, though, that includes students and very part-timers. That would also include all outside (apart from city hall and the KOF) facilities like community centres, arenas, cemeteries, pools and any other sports and other buildings (as I am sure I am leaving things out) field that requires staffing. I think if you look a unionized members (CUPE 68 (the "outside workers") and CUPE 791 (the "office workers") + management + fire services and you're probably looking around 1,000 easily (plus add some for council, for example).

Next time that I login into PeopleSoft at work, I'll look at the cheque numbers and I'll get back with a more accurate number (791 workers & management are every 2 weeks (perhaps firefighters & council as well), CUPE 68 and part-timers are every week -- so I should be able to figure it out that way), though unsure if cheque numbers include non-employee's (such as outside contractors or other business expenses).

I would imagine for Waterloo it would be a little less per population as they have very few public facilities, and Cambridge would be very similar to Kitchener. So ball parking it, maybe Waterloo has 800 altogether, and Cambridge maybe 1,200.

I was looking to do an analysis of percentage of city staff on the fire department vs. the percentage on the public salary disclosure. While it's probably not a great reporting metric, I was just curious.

Of the 294 City of Kitchener employees exceeding $100,000 in 2017, 184 (63%) were on the fire department. I would imagine fire accounts for a much smaller fraction of overall city staff. 

However, their salaries are probably based on 40-44hr weeks while other staff are closer to 35-40hr.

CUPE 791 employee's are salaried, CUPE 68 employee's are hourly. I don't think many 791 employees are making over $100,000. There would be a small amount for 68 employees -- this is a result of OT and being "on-call". There was this one guy from utilities making more than $100G/year because he took every bit of OT, and every 'on-call" he could take. No life, no wife, no kids. However, that's the exception. Most employees making more than $100G/year are supervisors and directors and other senior management.

The fire department is a small portion of the workforce, but obviously the best paid too, for non-management. In fact, many managers make less than the fire fighters, it really depends on what their grade is.

[nms]

Of the 294 City of Kitchener employees exceeding $100,000 in 2017, 184 (63%) were on the fire department. I would imagine fire accounts for a much smaller fraction of overall city staff. 

In terms of fairness, you would also want to look at Region of Waterloo staff since they pay the police and paramedic salaries.  For instance, going back to 2017, the CBC reported that 670 Waterloo Regional Police Service members were on the Sunshine List in 2016, up from 545 in 2016. The numbers below are drawn from the 2018 release (ie it only includes staff who were about the $100,000 threshold). If the CBC numbers from 2017 and the number below from 2018 are accurate, it would show that there was some turnover in the police force from 2016 to 2017.

Summary          Total          Fire          Police          Paramedic          Children's Aid
Cambridge          170           97           0                     0                     0
Kitchener           194           143           0                     0                     0
Waterloo            157           87           0                     0                     0
Region               971           0           637                     59                     23

There is also the quibble that according to the Bank of Canada $100,000 salary in 1996 would need to be up closer to a $150,000 salary today to exercise the equivalent buying power, but I digress.

PS. Apologies for the tabs instead of the tables, the Table Generator and I couldn't come to an agreement.

[jeffster]

There is also the quibble that according to the Bank of Canada $100,000 salary in 1996 would need to be up closer to a $150,000 salary today to exercise the equivalent buying power, but I digress.

PS. Apologies for the tabs instead of the tables, the Table Generator and I couldn't come to an agreement.

I agree that the $100G club probably needs to be changed...lots of staff will be added in the coming years as that $100,000 is worth less and less every year. If using inflation, it would give us a much better idea of how many people really are 'sunshine'.

[panamaniac]

So, does having Ken Seiling lead the Province's review of regional governments make it more or less likely that the Region of Waterloo goes single tier?

[Viewfromthe42]

As has been pointed out, reviewing so many different regional structures with such a short timeframe means it is most likely that the decision has already been made and this is more of a showpiece than a real evaluation.

[MacBerry]

Ontario reveals new regional growth targets, adviser appointments in changes to cancelled 2005 Growth Plan 

Bill 66  has a new sprawl partner as Ontario Growth Plan cancelled

Globe and Mail January 15, 2019

"Ontario government plans to loosen the density targets in its Growth Plan for the Greater Golden Horseshoe in the name of building more housing more quickly, but critics warn the move simply gives a green light to new suburban sprawl.

The proposals, announced on Tuesday, would scale back complex rules that force municipalities in the region to plan for denser, more compact communities that are easier to serve with public transit – rules that had just been tightened in 2017 by the previous Liberal government. The new proposals would also make it easier for municipalities to designate new greenfield land for development.

The Growth Plan, introduced by the Liberal government of Dalton McGuinty in 2005, was brought in alongside the 7,200-square-kilometre protected Greenbelt of farmland and woodland that stretches around Toronto from Niagara to Peterborough.

“Basically, it is going back to the sprawl model,”  The current density target mandates that new development on greenfield sites must encompass 80 people or jobs per hectare, a level that provincial planners say can sustain bus service that comes every 10 to 15 minutes.

Under the new proposed rules, Hamilton, Peel, Waterloo and York Region will only have to plan for 60 people and jobs per hectare. 

The proposed changes also rewrite the Growth Plan’s introduction, deleting the phrase “urban sprawl” in favour of “unmanaged growth,” as well as substituting a “cleaner environment” for a “clean and healthy environment” and taking out a reference to “social equity.” The rewritten sections also stress the need for housing supply that “reflects market demand.”

[Spokes]

So, does having Ken Seiling lead the Province's review of regional governments make it more or less likely that the Region of Waterloo goes single tier?

I legitimately have no clue.  Obviously as former Regional chair he's a believer in the Region, but Region over municipalities, I have no idea.

Retirement lasted a hot minute for him hah.

[dtkmelissa]

From Mayor Vrbanovic on the upcoming review. https://www.kitchener.ca/Modules/News/in...85a44685d0