City Centre/Young Condominiums | 17, 25 & 6 fl | U/C

[panamaniac]

Are the prices that much out of line with the other projects in DTK?

[tomh009]

This feels so much like the first phase.

Awful sales, high prices.  Ugh.

What is it about the momentum projects that make them so much more appealing?

It's not just Momentum. Most local condo developments sell pretty briskly.

[danbrotherston]

It's funny, city centre condos were the ones I looked at before the prices drove me to buying a house.

Years later, I realized it wasn't what I want and bought a 30 year old fully refinished unit for far far less than anything new, but maybe I wouldn't have had that (reasonably profitable and enlightening) lesson in home ownership without it.

[Spokes]

This feels so much like the first phase.

Awful sales, high prices.  Ugh.

What is it about the momentum projects that make them so much more appealing?

It's not just Momentum. Most local condo developments sell pretty briskly.

You're absolutely right.  For some reason I always think of them (likely because we've almost bought at some of their properties)

I wonder if the units or finishes are different some how?

[tomh009]

It's funny, city centre condos were the ones I looked at before the prices drove me to buying a house.

Years later, I realized it wasn't what I want and bought a 30 year old fully refinished unit for far far less than anything new, but maybe I wouldn't have had that (reasonably profitable and enlightening) lesson in home ownership without it.

Even five-year-old condos sell for much less than new ones (compare Arrow Lofts, for example, to DTK). People seem to be willing to pay a big premium for "new", and the same is true, to a somewhat lesser extent, for single-family houses.

The challenge and risk with older condos (just as with older houses!) is the maintenance if they have not been kept up. Eaton Lofts and 64 Benton, for example, are at over $1/sqft for condo fees, primarily due to the reserve fund contributions when a well-maintained building should be somewhere around 50 cents. I think your building is around 60 cents, which is still quite reasonable.

[plam]

Even five-year-old condos sell for much less than new ones (compare Arrow Lofts, for example, to DTK). People seem to be willing to pay a big premium for "new", and the same is true, to a somewhat lesser extent, for single-family houses.

The challenge and risk with older condos (just as with older houses!) is the maintenance if they have not been kept up. Eaton Lofts and 64 Benton, for example, are at over $1/sqft for condo fees, primarily due to the reserve fund contributions when a well-maintained building should be somewhere around 50 cents. I think your building is around 60 cents, which is still quite reasonable.

Per month? Yikes. Condo fees do tend to go up right away though. I think developers purposefully set them low on opening.

And yet people buy new condos as their real estate speculation plan. I don't really see how that can work out.

[danbrotherston]

It's funny, city centre condos were the ones I looked at before the prices drove me to buying a house.

Years later, I realized it wasn't what I want and bought a 30 year old fully refinished unit for far far less than anything new, but maybe I wouldn't have had that (reasonably profitable and enlightening) lesson in home ownership without it.

Even five-year-old condos sell for much less than new ones (compare Arrow Lofts, for example, to DTK). People seem to be willing to pay a big premium for "new", and the same is true, to a somewhat lesser extent, for single-family houses.

The challenge and risk with older condos (just as with older houses!) is the maintenance if they have not been kept up. Eaton Lofts and 64 Benton, for example, are at over $1/sqft for condo fees, primarily due to the reserve fund contributions when a well-maintained building should be somewhere around 50 cents. I think your building is around 60 cents, which is still quite reasonable.

This is strange to me, given that it's generally expected these days that property is a growth asset.

As for condo fees, yes, I generally expect new places to be low balled.  Fees are per sqft, but I think it's more enlightening to see the full cost.  Our building might be a reasonable 60c/sqft, but our units are very large, meaning the costs are pretty high.

It's also difficult to compare fees, because the costs include different things, for example, in my building the fee includes hot and cold water, and cooling and heating (which are entirely water based--no compressor or heater), but not electricity (which runs the heating/cooling unit fan).  How do you even break down that when comparing with a condo which has an electrically powered HVAC system.

And when looking at new units, estimating the utility costs is basically a crap shoot--even used ones, I still don't know how my lifestyle compares with the previous owner.

[tomh009]

As for condo fees, yes, I generally expect new places to be low balled.  Fees are per sqft, but I think it's more enlightening to see the full cost.  Our building might be a reasonable 60c/sqft, but our units are very large, meaning the costs are pretty high.

It's also difficult to compare fees, because the costs include different things, for example, in my building the fee includes hot and cold water, and cooling and heating (which are entirely water based--no compressor or heater), but not electricity (which runs the heating/cooling unit fan).  How do you even break down that when comparing with a condo which has an electrically powered HVAC system.

And when looking at new units, estimating the utility costs is basically a crap shoot--even used ones, I still don't know how my lifestyle compares with the previous owner.

Yes, utilities coverage varies, but our building is the same as yours: I think that's a fairly common model, but certainly other models exist.

Now ones are generally lowballed, and jump up as soon as the condo corporation has to do its first reserve fund study. (Our reserve fund contributions are just over 25% of the total budget, and that's for a building that has not been neglected.) And that's really where the high fees at Eaton Lofts etc come from -- the reserve fund contributions were too low in the past, but once the corporations were forced to do the reserve fund studies, they had to start catching up. And that means higher fees.

[jeffster]

Very interesting rumors swirling around this building. My friend who is an agent, went to the second Sales Event last week. They were now selling to all local and Toronto agents. He was told after the event that they only sold about 30% total, including the units that were sold during the first VIP event. Apparently they need to get to 80% sold in order to start building. He instructed his clients to cancel their deals, as he thinks the project will either get cancelled, or will be significantly delayed. Yikes!!!

Wow....if it gets cancelled. They probably need to re-adjust their prices, though I haven't seen it.

[Spokes]

Ok so I'm still trying to make sense of the changes to phase 2.  I don't know why I can't wrap my head around this.

So in this render of the courtyard, the part of the podium on the right is facing King street right?  The part with the Forsyth facade faces Duke Street?  Is this right up to Duke or is it set back a lot?

   

[panamaniac]

Ok so I'm still trying to make sense of the changes to phase 2.  I don't know why I can't wrap my head around this.

So in this render of the courtyard, the part of the podium on the right is facing King street right?  The part with the Forsyth facade faces Duke Street?  Is this right up to Duke or is it set back a lot?

That's how I read it.  The render (see garden and performers) suggests some setback from Duke.

When did the City approve the revised design?

[taylortbb]

Yes, the Forsyth facade is facing Duke. The opposite side of the podium isn't at King St though. The project has been expanded to add an office building, so the side of the podium opposite the Forsyth facade faces the back of the office building (which is the the thing on the right of the render), and the office building will be on King St.

[tomh009]

And of course the render is shown on flat ground (as usual for renders), whereas in real life there is a significant slope down from Duke St W to King St W.

[panamaniac]

Has anyone seen the revised site plan? Is there still a pedestrian passage from the courtyard to King St?

[Spokes]

And of course the render is shown on flat ground (as usual for renders), whereas in real life there is a significant slope down from Duke St W to King St W.

Could underground parking help mitigate the slope?