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Does anyone know the status of this project in the approvals process? I know these new images were just released a few weeks ago, but for what purpose?
The Humphreys and Partners Architects web site is showing 90,000 sf of retail, 78,500 sf of office and 544,000 sf of residential space. This is great density for this location, but I do think that the project turns its back on King street which is a massive mistake. This area will see more and more pedestrian traffic as the downtown area intensifies with the new transit node and a project of this size will stand for many years. Imagine if a massive retail/office project turned a giant wall to a major transit/pedestrian artery in Toronto... oh wait, yea the Eaton's Centre... we all know how that destroyed the world-class music and entertainment scene on Yonge from the 60s and 70s. Only recently is Yonge starting to re-invent itself 30-40 years later. Why can't we bring retail space down to grade and restrict vehicular access to the one point shown off Wellington and maintain only one driveway at King? The city's planners should really step in and fight for the pedestrian realm if they're serious about making the KW downtown a truly urban place.
Is the best approach for that location (only that location) to bring the retail element to King St, or to bring the pedestrian experience in from, but parallel to, King St to avoid the unpleasantness of the retaining wall and railway overpass? At the moment, I don't think the project does either. If this project marks the far end of an expanded Downtown, is it really a problem if it draws pedestrian traffic in off the street? Again something I'd say only about that specific location, but I do wonder.
That coloured image does a good job of showing the site almost as a pair of hands clasping at the interactive areas, shielding them from the neighbouring areas, turning their backs on everything outside. Reminds me of a more intense version of the Bauer buildings in that respect, terrible experiences from all sides, until you're inside the cloister.
(04-29-2016, 11:24 AM)panamaniac Wrote: Is the best approach for that location (only that location) to bring the retail element to King St, or to bring the pedestrian experience in from, but parallel to, King St to avoid the unpleasantness of the retaining wall and railway overpass? At the moment, I don't think the project does either. If this project marks the far end of an expanded Downtown, is it really a problem if it draws pedestrian traffic in off the street? Again something I'd say only about that specific location, but I do wonder.
panamaniac, I am a firm believer in always keeping the pedestrian experience at the street. There are very few projects that manage to successfully bring pedestrians onto private property. And those projects usually do so because they are not fortunate enough to be located along a pedestrian-busy thoroughfare - I guess more of a park car and enter experience - shopping mall-like. Furthermore, I don't think we can continue to think of this location as the far end of an expanded downtown. The location of the transit node indicates that Kitchener and Waterloo are both interested in expanded densification efforts along King - which would actually make this location smack in the middle of the new downtown.
(04-29-2016, 11:34 AM)Viewfromthe42 Wrote: That coloured image does a good job of showing the site almost as a pair of hands clasping at the interactive areas, shielding them from the neighbouring areas, turning their backs on everything outside. Reminds me of a more intense version of the Bauer buildings in that respect, terrible experiences from all sides, until you're inside the cloister.
There is actually King street-facing retail on two levels in both of the two "hands", as you can see on the render on the previous page. And the retail space is curved, and fronted with some small green space, so I think much more attractive than the Bauer building's fairly inert street presence.
The two retaining walls (which will hopefully be improved) aside, I really don't feel that this would be a terrible experience for a pedestrian. But it appears that I am in the minority in that regard.
(04-29-2016, 11:50 AM)battman Wrote: The location of the transit node indicates that Kitchener and Waterloo are both interested in expanded densification efforts along King - which would actually make this location smack in the middle of the new downtown.
Exactly, before the old city hall was demolished Downtown used to be King and Frederick. Then it moved to King and Queen. It crawled Northwards to King and Ottawa with the opening of the new city Hall and the Charles St. bus station. Once the transit node opens Downtown will be defined by King and Water.
(04-29-2016, 11:50 AM)battman Wrote: The location of the transit node indicates that Kitchener and Waterloo are both interested in expanded densification efforts along King - which would actually make this location smack in the middle of the new downtown.
Exactly, before the old city hall was demolished Downtown used to be King and Frederick. Then it moved to King and Queen. It crawled Northwards to King and Ottawa with the opening of the new city Hall and the Charles St. bus station. Once the transit node opens Downtown will be defined by King and Water.
Do you mean "King and Ontario" - Ottawa is significantly in the wrong direction.
And your Northwards is actually technically West. Love how that works in Kitchener. haha
(04-29-2016, 01:01 PM)BuildingScout Wrote: Exactly, before the old city hall was demolished Downtown used to be King and Frederick. Then it moved to King and Queen. It crawled Northwards to King and Ottawa with the opening of the new city Hall and the Charles St. bus station. Once the transit node opens Downtown will be defined by King and Water.
Do you mean "King and Ontario" - Ottawa is significantly in the wrong direction.
And your Northwards is actually technically West. Love how that works in Kitchener. haha
Yes to both. I keep forgetting that North in Kitchener is West and I meant Ontario instead of Ottawa.
(04-29-2016, 01:01 PM)BuildingScout Wrote: Exactly, before the old city hall was demolished Downtown used to be King and Frederick. Then it moved to King and Queen. It crawled Northwards to King and Ottawa with the opening of the new city Hall and the Charles St. bus station. Once the transit node opens Downtown will be defined by King and Water.
Very well said. I was just thinking about Kitchener's "centre of gravity" visiting a business near King and Queen the other day. The numbers start at Queen, but that doesn't mean that's still downtown's crossroads. King and Water probably will be it if not King and Francis or Victoria- the amount of traffic moving between the transit hub and Communitech and the businesses on Victoria might make that happen.
All that to say, an extremely positive experience for people on foot walking north/west along King past this site is extremely important. A few years after this is developed, it will not really seem like the bleeding edge of downtown at all.
The day King and Queen is not the heart of Downtown would be a sad day for Kitchener, at least from an historical perspective. That's why I'm glad to see the Vidyard project and continue to hope for something suitable on the King St gap between King and Frederick. Not to mention a fabulous refurbishment of Market Square!
Not sure why that schematic siteplan drawing even bothered with including context, since it's clear that the architects don't give a rip about the context to inform the design.
(04-29-2016, 11:10 AM)battman Wrote: Does anyone know the status of this project in the approvals process? I know these new images were just released a few weeks ago, but for what purpose?
The city's planners should really step in and fight for the pedestrian realm if they're serious about making the KW downtown a truly urban place.
This report would seem to suggest that the city sees at least the Breithaupt Street streetscape is of high importance to the city; hopefully that spills over to King as well: http://www.kitchener.ca/en/Calendar/Down...4a7c4d29aa
Everyone move to the back of the bus and we all get home faster.
There are a couple of issues I can foresee with this proposal as it stands. The furthest car entrance south, on King st., would need a traffic light because I'm pretty sure the ion is not operating in the centre of the roadway at this point. On a one way road that may cause some headaches. I wonder why they would put the tallest tower on the north side closest to the residential neighbourhoods? They should reverse it so that the development tapers down to "midtown". I wonder what issues the Orange helicopter operating in the area will have with this development. Also, it looks like they are taking down the addition to Kaufman House/Ratz Bechtel. FYI, all directions are given assuming waterloo is north and Kitchener is south!
(08-25-2016, 09:14 PM)rangersfan Wrote: The Zehr Group's website for the project doesn't have those latest renders, which is odd, unless they are just potential concepts for the site.
Weird.
Really interested to see what they're going to develop there.
And interested for any news coming out about this, very exciting stuff.
