Station Park | 18, 28, 36, 43, 50 fl | U/C

[kwliving]

This project reminds me of City Centre in Las Vegas. It has a bunch of raised sidewalks and I find it terrible to get around. Stairs everywhere.

Hopefully whatever is done with King's Crossing will be pedestrian friendly.

[tomh009]

I really don't see stairs as pedestrian unfriendly (though not accessible -- need ramps or elevators for wheelchair access). The site has significant elevation changes and stairs are usually the best solution for those as they take much less space than ramps.

For pedestrians walking by along King St, the stairs and internal layout don't matter much anyway. If the building looks nice and the retaining wall can be eliminated (or made more interesting, with display windows, for example), not much else should matter.

For people living, working or shopping at King's Crossing, the layout will be relevant. Access to/from the street to/from retail and residential towers will be the key, but speed of access will need to be balanced with site design/architecture/landscaping to make it an attractive and pleasant place to live, work and shop. From that point of view, there are probably optimizations that can be done, but even for that, I really don't see it as being terrible.

[tomh009]

It does seem exactly like a cruise ship. And I strongly dislike it. My primary concern is that there doesn't seem to be a sidewalk connection through the site due to the access ramps off King forcing pedestrians to divert significantly into the site or onto that second level.

Sidewalk connection through the site ... from where to where?  To do a shortcut from King to Wellington?

[tomh009]

Personally, I think this looks like a condo crossed with a shopping mall crossed with a cruise ship.  It looks terribly dysfunctional from a streetscape point of view.

Why is it dysfunctional?  Apart from the retaining wall, which has already been much discussed, and which will hopefully be improved yet.

[REnerd]

Personally, I think this looks like a condo crossed with a shopping mall crossed with a cruise ship.  It looks terribly dysfunctional from a streetscape point of view.

Why is it dysfunctional?  Apart from the retaining wall, which has already been much discussed, and which will hopefully be improved yet.

Dysfunctional because I disagree with your above sentiment about stairs.  Retail customers are notoriously fickle.  Customers barely want to open doors let alone climb a set of stairs to your shop.

Just my opinion... obviously lots of people see this differently.

[jordan2423]

Link to this topic on SSP.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthre...3&page=290

Some of the other threads can be fairly combative so be warned. There are a lot of geographically insecure people there.

replace stairs with escalators lol

[Elmira Guy]

Not sure why you quoted my post with your comment, jordan2423. Doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, but then hey. I went to Laurier for my undergrad. What do I know?

[jordan2423]

Not sure why you quoted my post with your comment, jordan2423. Doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, but then hey. I went to Laurier for my undergrad. What do I know?

I obviously quoted the wrong person.

[Markster]

It does seem exactly like a cruise ship. And I strongly dislike it. My primary concern is that there doesn't seem to be a sidewalk connection through the site due to the access ramps off King forcing pedestrians to divert significantly into the site or onto that second level.

Sidewalk connection through the site ... from where to where?  To do a shortcut from King to Wellington?

For walking along King.  So that you can walk along King, and not have to choose between a long walk between traffic and a retaining wall or a long detour into the complex.  If there is an unbroken path at complex level, people will walk along that for the visual interest and separation from traffic, but if it requires a large detour, then people are stuck with making a choice between two unfavourable options.

[tomh009]

Sidewalk connection through the site ... from where to where?  To do a shortcut from King to Wellington?

For walking along King.  So that you can walk along King, and not have to choose between a long walk between traffic and a retaining wall or a long detour into the complex.  If there is an unbroken path at complex level, people will walk along that for the visual interest and separation from traffic, but if it requires a large detour, then people are stuck with making a choice between two unfavourable options.

OK, but this really just goes back to the retaining wall question.  I don't think we should expect developers to provide alternate sidewalks, as long as their projects are good otherwise.

And really that proposed retaining wall isn't that long ...

[MacBerry]

Not sure why you quoted my post with your comment, jordan2423. Doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, but then hey. I went to Laurier for my undergrad. What do I know?

Ya it is tough, Elmira Guy, I too went to Laurier and can't figure out how I manged to get three additional graduate degrees following an undergrad degree from such a "joke" (jordan2423) higher education institute. What do I know?

Words can make you friends or enemies, choose wisely!

[Spokes]

I suspect that the eventual development will address the retaining wall issue.  As far as I know, what we're looking at so far is one of several concepts for the eventual development.  What finally gets built may bear little or no ressemblance....

No, this was the concept chosen among a few options by Zehr Group to develop on the site. But yes, expect significant changes as this goes through the approval process... and hopefully it's not watered down to the point of mediocrity as we've seen before with other projects.

I like that this one was chosen, IF they make some revisions.  I like the 3 tower concept.  I like the overall look of it.  But I think this area is too important not to have street front retail and more street interaction.

[Spokes]

Just so they're all here for reference:

[Viewfromthe42]

In Waterloo and Kitchener, I'd say second storey stores are about the most unpopular option for businesses. The number of steps, turns, and storeys required for someone not living here to get to the stores is going to be a huge encumberance. You have the central hub for all non-car transportation in the region across the road, nearly, but you're going to make it hard/unpleasant for them to get to you? This seriously needs more thought.

[tomh009]

Why are multiple levels acceptable for indoor shopping malls, but unacceptable for core downtown retail?

My mind boggles, I have seen multiple levels of (successful) retail in so many cities that I fail to understand why it cannot work in Kitchener.