Downtown Kitchener Fire Station | 19 fl | Proposed

[ac3r]

Let's hope the developers don't find a sale on grey and white precast blocks and do a bait and switch.

[Kodra24]

Let's hope the developers don't find a sale on grey and white precast blocks and do a bait and switch.

Hahaha

[Gubs]

CROWNE PLAZA - One would need to earn an extra $3200 a year (pretax) to be able to afford the 9 minute walk each way to the parking lot. Kinda blows the whole "affordability" aspect of this build.

CITY OWNED LOT - Closest one is on Charles, at Benton. 10-minute walk. Probably the same price as Crowne Plaza.

COMMUNAUTO - They have 3 cars now, and these cars are usually in use. The owner of the lot where the cars are may be able to assign another space, but he needs space for tenants of the vacant house/business right between the lot and the build site.

PERMIT PARKING - Great - let's do it! There will be a fee (affordability), no overnight parking during the winter, AND the market to contend with on Saturday. Market patrons would also have to have a paid permit.

MARKET PARKING - If the City could figure out a way to empty out the " firehouse tenant" portion of the underground parking for Saturday market customers (there is an all-day queue to get into the lot) then maybe they could rent spaces there. There is additional parking for tenants of the market lofts, but those spots are pretty full, and it pisses them off that they can hardly come and go on a Saturday due to market public parking.

HABITAT FOR HUMANITY - Their builds are "a hand up, not a hand out" which is meant to address the affordability issue. Great. But have you every seen a Habitat For Humanity build that didn't have at least one vehicle parked in the driveway? Even people who have "affordable" housing own cars.

KIDS - I guess the tenants of this build will not have kids. I say this because the City is finishing off an incredible indoor recreation complex out in the Doon area. Indoor winter sports including soccer, the most popular sport in the world! But how to get there if you don't have a car and live at the new firehouse build in downtown Kitchener? You take a bus. 90 minutes each way.

Chaos, I tell you all. Chaos. As a 30-year resident of this neighbourhood, I know exactly what's coming. No entrepreneur, nor the property owner (the City of Kitchener) is going to solve it.

[bravado]

...As a 30-year resident of this neighbourhood, I know exactly what's coming. 

Translation: I haven't had to personally worry about housing for decades, so I have lots to say about how others should live.

You genuinely can't imagine someone just not having a car? As someone in the area for so long, I would expect you'd be happy if all that traffic could be reduced over time by new builds that don't generate congestion.

We should be able to build something in the central core of a city and not expect the sky to fall if there isn't any parking allocated to it. We should also expect affordable builds to reduce costs as much as possible. Parking of all kinds (surface, structure, underground) is a massive cost that can be reduced if the build is downtown where all the transit is.

[Gubs]

...As a 30-year resident of this neighbourhood, I know exactly what's coming. 

Translation: I haven't had to personally worry about housing for decades, so I have lots to say about how others should live.

You genuinely can't imagine someone just not having a car? As someone in the area for so long, I would expect you'd be happy if all that traffic could be reduced over time by new builds that don't generate congestion.

We should be able to build something in the central core of a city and not expect the sky to fall if there isn't any parking allocated to it. We should also expect affordable builds to reduce costs as much as possible. Parking of all kinds (surface, structure, underground) is a massive cost that can be reduced if the build is downtown where all the transit is.

Not everyone NEEDS a car, but across nearly 300 units nobody will HAVE a car?  Not at all realistic.  That's the issue that I've brought up.  Chaos is still coming.

[westwardloo]

Translation: I haven't had to personally worry about housing for decades, so I have lots to say about how others should live.

You genuinely can't imagine someone just not having a car? As someone in the area for so long, I would expect you'd be happy if all that traffic could be reduced over time by new builds that don't generate congestion.

We should be able to build something in the central core of a city and not expect the sky to fall if there isn't any parking allocated to it. We should also expect affordable builds to reduce costs as much as possible. Parking of all kinds (surface, structure, underground) is a massive cost that can be reduced if the build is downtown where all the transit is.

Not everyone NEEDS a car, but across nearly 300 units nobody will HAVE a car?  Not at all realistic.  That's the issue that I've brought up.  Chaos is still coming.

I don't get this argument? Surely if people need a car for their everyday life they will choose to live in a building that provides space for their car. People that don't need a car will look at a building like this and see it as an option that matches their life needs. Parking minimums are such a ridiculous failure of our planning the last 80+ years. We live in a society that loves the power of the free market. If there is a market for zero parking Retail spaces, commercial space, residential buildings we should allow it to be built. Private industry will figure out quickly whether they want to include parking or not. But our requirements for x number of spots per sqft/ unit hampers development and I would argue ruins the pedestrian built environment.

[Acitta]

CROWNE PLAZA - One would need to earn an extra $3200 a year (pretax) to be able to afford the 9 minute walk each way to the parking lot.  Kinda blows the whole "affordability" aspect of this build.

CITY OWNED LOT - Closest one is on Charles, at Benton.  10-minute walk.  Probably the same price as Crowne Plaza.

COMMUNAUTO - They have 3 cars now, and these cars are usually in use.  The owner of the lot where the cars are may be able to assign another space, but he needs space for tenants of the vacant house/business right between the lot and the build site. 

PERMIT PARKING - Great - let's do it!  There will be a fee (affordability), no overnight parking during the winter, AND the market to contend with on Saturday.  Market patrons would also have to have a paid permit.

MARKET PARKING - If the City could figure out a way to empty out the " firehouse tenant" portion of the underground parking for Saturday market customers (there is an all-day queue to get into the lot) then maybe they could rent spaces there.  There is additional parking for tenants of the market lofts, but those spots are pretty full, and it pisses them off that they can hardly come and go on a Saturday due to market public parking.

HABITAT FOR HUMANITY - Their builds are "a hand up, not a hand out" which is meant to address the affordability issue.  Great.  But have you every seen a Habitat For Humanity build that didn't have at least one vehicle parked in the driveway?  Even people who have "affordable" housing own cars.

KIDS - I guess the tenants of this build will not have kids.  I say this because the City is finishing off an incredible indoor recreation complex out in the Doon area.  Indoor winter sports including soccer, the most popular sport in the world!  But how to get there if you don't have a car and live at the new firehouse build in downtown Kitchener?  You take a bus.  90 minutes each way.

Chaos, I tell you all.  Chaos.  As a 30-year resident of this neighbourhood, I know exactly what's coming.  No entrepreneur, nor the property owner (the City of Kitchener) is going to solve it.

I just turned 73. I have never owned a car in my entire life, having always gotten by with public transit and bicycle. I don't understand this obsession with owning cars, which are expensive to own and operate and which regularly kill people both inside and outside of them. I also don't understand that some people don't comprehend that people regularly take their children to places by public transit and often even by bicycle.

[Gubs]

CROWNE PLAZA - One would need to earn an extra $3200 a year (pretax) to be able to afford the 9 minute walk each way to the parking lot.  Kinda blows the whole "affordability" aspect of this build.

CITY OWNED LOT - Closest one is on Charles, at Benton.  10-minute walk.  Probably the same price as Crowne Plaza.

COMMUNAUTO - They have 3 cars now, and these cars are usually in use.  The owner of the lot where the cars are may be able to assign another space, but he needs space for tenants of the vacant house/business right between the lot and the build site. 

PERMIT PARKING - Great - let's do it!  There will be a fee (affordability), no overnight parking during the winter, AND the market to contend with on Saturday.  Market patrons would also have to have a paid permit.

MARKET PARKING - If the City could figure out a way to empty out the " firehouse tenant" portion of the underground parking for Saturday market customers (there is an all-day queue to get into the lot) then maybe they could rent spaces there.  There is additional parking for tenants of the market lofts, but those spots are pretty full, and it pisses them off that they can hardly come and go on a Saturday due to market public parking.

HABITAT FOR HUMANITY - Their builds are "a hand up, not a hand out" which is meant to address the affordability issue.  Great.  But have you every seen a Habitat For Humanity build that didn't have at least one vehicle parked in the driveway?  Even people who have "affordable" housing own cars.

KIDS - I guess the tenants of this build will not have kids.  I say this because the City is finishing off an incredible indoor recreation complex out in the Doon area.  Indoor winter sports including soccer, the most popular sport in the world!  But how to get there if you don't have a car and live at the new firehouse build in downtown Kitchener?  You take a bus.  90 minutes each way.

Chaos, I tell you all.  Chaos.  As a 30-year resident of this neighbourhood, I know exactly what's coming.  No entrepreneur, nor the property owner (the City of Kitchener) is going to solve it.

I just turned 73. I have never owned a car in my entire life, having always gotten by with public transit and bicycle. I don't understand this obsession with owning cars, which are expensive to own and operate and which regularly kill people both inside and outside of them. I also don't understand that some people don't comprehend that people regularly take their children to places by public transit and often even by bicycle.

Not going to argue with either of you any more because we obviously live in two different worlds.  Just mark my words.  Look at the minutes of the City Council meetings about this build. Same issues raised by others.  We'll see...

[westwardloo]

haha yeah I am sure the council meeting was similar to what gets brought up at every planning meeting from residents who think they know more than experts.

[Kodra24]

CROWNE PLAZA - One would need to earn an extra $3200 a year (pretax) to be able to afford the 9 minute walk each way to the parking lot.  Kinda blows the whole "affordability" aspect of this build.

CITY OWNED LOT - Closest one is on Charles, at Benton.  10-minute walk.  Probably the same price as Crowne Plaza.

COMMUNAUTO - They have 3 cars now, and these cars are usually in use.  The owner of the lot where the cars are may be able to assign another space, but he needs space for tenants of the vacant house/business right between the lot and the build site. 

PERMIT PARKING - Great - let's do it!  There will be a fee (affordability), no overnight parking during the winter, AND the market to contend with on Saturday.  Market patrons would also have to have a paid permit.

MARKET PARKING - If the City could figure out a way to empty out the " firehouse tenant" portion of the underground parking for Saturday market customers (there is an all-day queue to get into the lot) then maybe they could rent spaces there.  There is additional parking for tenants of the market lofts, but those spots are pretty full, and it pisses them off that they can hardly come and go on a Saturday due to market public parking.

HABITAT FOR HUMANITY - Their builds are "a hand up, not a hand out" which is meant to address the affordability issue.  Great.  But have you every seen a Habitat For Humanity build that didn't have at least one vehicle parked in the driveway?  Even people who have "affordable" housing own cars.

KIDS - I guess the tenants of this build will not have kids.  I say this because the City is finishing off an incredible indoor recreation complex out in the Doon area.  Indoor winter sports including soccer, the most popular sport in the world!  But how to get there if you don't have a car and live at the new firehouse build in downtown Kitchener?  You take a bus.  90 minutes each way.

Chaos, I tell you all.  Chaos.  As a 30-year resident of this neighbourhood, I know exactly what's coming.  No entrepreneur, nor the property owner (the City of Kitchener) is going to solve it.

I just turned 73. I have never owned a car in my entire life, having always gotten by with public transit and bicycle. I don't understand this obsession with owning cars, which are expensive to own and operate and which regularly kill people both inside and outside of them. I also don't understand that some people don't comprehend that people regularly take their children to places by public transit and often even by bicycle.

Wow! I can't even wrap my head around that - did you ever want to own a car? It must be such a massive limiting factor for so many things

Good on you if that's what you wanted

[KevinL]

I don't have quite as many years on Acitta but I am similarly car-free. I don't even live 'downtown', but my area does have good transit service and walkable amenities. I've had to sacrifice some life flexibility, but I've saved a lot of money as a result and feel my lifestyle is healthier.

[Acitta]

I just turned 73. I have never owned a car in my entire life, having always gotten by with public transit and bicycle. I don't understand this obsession with owning cars, which are expensive to own and operate and which regularly kill people both inside and outside of them. I also don't understand that some people don't comprehend that people regularly take their children to places by public transit and often even by bicycle.

Wow! I can't even wrap my head around that - did you ever want to own a car? It must be such a massive limiting factor for so many things

Good on you if that's what you wanted

I only got a driver's license when I was 35 because a small shop I was working for wanted me to drive their delivery van. I got fired the day after I got the license. I rented a car twice, and shared driving duties with my father on a trip to North Carolina to visit my brother. I hated driving and never drove again after that trip. Even if I wanted a car, I was never in the financial condition to consider spending the massive amount of money required to buy one. I just finally got rid of my license after being officially forbidden to drive after my hospital stay in 2024 with a spinal infection that temporarily took away my ability to walk.

[bravado]

Once again: if you think you can sell a project that has x units of parking, you should be able to do it without neighbours chiming in nearby about why you "need to have" a minimum number of xyz. Why do you have strong opinions on what people do with their property? Why should it be codified in law?

If you can't imagine people living a life without a car, I have to assume that you haven't travelled much in those 30 years you mentioned. What a weird observation.

If someone builds something without any parking and the streets nearby are full of cars as a result - that's at best a great reason to remove all that free parking nearby that benefits private landowners. At worst, a new revenue opportunity for the city parking enforcement squad. Let the market adapt.

[tomh009]

Wow! I can't even wrap my head around that - did you ever want to own a car? It must be such a massive limiting factor for so many things

We have a car ... and when we lived in the suburbs/exurbs we had two (and three at one point), as both of us were driving to different locations for work.

Now, living in DTK, our singular vehicle gets driven a few times a week. We really could do without one if it were not for the family medical appointments that would be quite challenging without a car. There is a Communauto lot near us that almost always has a car or two available, and an occasional taxi/uber (for the times when walking or bicycle is not sufficient) really is not expensive when you compare it to the cost of car ownership. Ongoing transit and active transportation improvements make being carless even easier.

[plam]

Looking back at my notes, I used my car in Waterloo 6-8 times a month for January - April. It would be annoying to not have a car, but it certainly is far from an everyday-use item.