Charles St GRT terminal redevelopment

[tomh009]

For anyone who hasn't visited engagewr.com for the details, here is the high-density proposal as seen from Victoria Park side:

   

As noted earlier, the project page is here:
https://www.engagewr.ca/embeds/projects/...ools/51109

[danbrotherston]

I suppose I could add to that a wholesome underground parking garage a la Distillery District Toronto since we seem to have a parking problem in DTK.

Go big, do it right. 4 to 5 levels of parking.

Sarcasm? Underground parking wouldn’t be easy or maybe even possible in DTK and wouldn’t solve “the parking problem” anyway given that the “parking problem” isn’t a lack of parking, but instead people’s perception that there isn’t any parking which is fuelled by 3 thoughts: 1 “no I meant free parking, paid parking doesn’t count” 2 “I heard there is no parking” 3 “there isn’t a giant, highly visible surface parking lot in front of the store I’m going to”

[Momo26]

Why sarcasm? Not at all.

Didn't TEK tower include a couple floors of underground parking? Station Park? Station Park's podium is all units so where did they put the parking?

Everything is possible IMO with money.

[westwardloo]

Honestly, looking at the preliminary design vision. I am pleasantly surprised with what they have come up with. I really like the pedestrian connection from all four sides of the property and the public square could be a well used space in DTK. I think that the tower on Ontario street should be slightly taller and they should remove the playground from the square to all the space to function better for community events like jazz fest or the christmas market. I hope the city/ region can find a partner/ funding for the community space. A museum or cultural centre would be a great addition to the downtown.

[timc]

I suppose I could add to that a wholesome underground parking garage a la Distillery District Toronto since we seem to have a parking problem in DTK.

Go big, do it right. 4 to 5 levels of parking.

Parking problem? What parking problem?

[tomh009]

Honestly, looking at the preliminary design vision. I am pleasantly surprised with what they have come up with. I really like the pedestrian  connection from all four sides of the property and the public square could be a well used space in DTK. I think that the tower on Ontario street should be slightly taller and they should remove the playground from the square to all the space to function better for community events like jazz fest or the Christmas market.

The square is very nice but I don't think it's big enough for the blues festival tents, maybe for some smaller thing like the children's stage.

I'm of two minds on the playground: it would be nice to have a more open space, but there aren't many playgrounds nearby so it would be good to have one.

[westwardloo]

Honestly, looking at the preliminary design vision. I am pleasantly surprised with what they have come up with. I really like the pedestrian  connection from all four sides of the property and the public square could be a well used space in DTK. I think that the tower on Ontario street should be slightly taller and they should remove the playground from the square to all the space to function better for community events like jazz fest or the Christmas market.

The square is very nice but I don't think it's big enough for the blues festival tents, maybe for some smaller thing like the children's stage.

I'm of two minds on the playground: it would be nice to have a more open space, but there aren't many playgrounds nearby so it would be good to have one.

I think if they incorporated Gaukel street better into the design there would be an opportunity for a larger public square that could be used for bigger events like Jazz and Octoberfest.  I think they should just put a playground in victoria park along David street.

[tomh009]

The square is very nice but I don't think it's big enough for the blues festival tents, maybe for some smaller thing like the children's stage.

I think if they incorporated Gaukel street better into the design there would be an opportunity for a larger public square that could be used for bigger events like Jazz and Octoberfest.  I think they should just put a playground in victoria park along David street.

Jazz is in Waterloo.

The strip along Gaukel is maybe 6M wide, I think there might be 15M of width including the street and the opposing sidewalk. But that's still not very much, not enough to be able to move one of the blues festival stages there. But I don't think it needs to be, either ...

[danbrotherston]

Why sarcasm? Not at all.

Didn't TEK tower include a couple floors of underground parking? Station Park? Station Park's podium is all units so where did they put the parking?

Everything is possible IMO with money.

Station Park and TEK are significantly up hill from Charles Terminal, the area is very swampy. Plus they're I dunno, 1-2 levels, not 4-5 levels. You're asking for a massive engineering project that would easily be a ~500 million dollar investment into parking, to solve a problem that exists exclusively in the minds of suburbanites who don't want to admit they're scared to go downtown because they might see a homeless person. Seems like you must be being sarcastic.

[danbrotherston]

Honestly, looking at the preliminary design vision. I am pleasantly surprised with what they have come up with. I really like the pedestrian  connection from all four sides of the property and the public square could be a well used space in DTK. I think that the tower on Ontario street should be slightly taller and they should remove the playground from the square to all the space to function better for community events like jazz fest or the christmas market. I hope the city/ region can find a partner/ funding for the community space. A museum or cultural centre would be a great addition to the downtown.

There's already a museum downtown right? At least one? And if I understand correctly, they struggle a lot. Some days I don't know why, other days, I realize that nobody who doesn't live downtown is willing to go downtown, and doubly so with children. Then it becomes clearer.

As for a playground, I'm obviously biased, but given I lived in a condo at Queen and Joseph, I'd support it. I also think you underestimate the space needed for a playground. The Dutch just stick them in anywhere, in any corner. And for a bonus, a literal children's playground should do a little to deter drivers and yes, I doubt there'll be many through drivers, but there will definitely be more than a few "oh, I'm just stopping by my business/home/whatever for a few minutes, so clearly I can just drive through the ped plaza".

[danbrotherston]

I think if they incorporated Gaukel street better into the design there would be an opportunity for a larger public square that could be used for bigger events like Jazz and Octoberfest.  I think they should just put a playground in victoria park along David street.

Jazz is in Waterloo.

The strip along Gaukel is maybe 6M wide, I think there might be 15M of width including the street and the opposing sidewalk. But that's still not very much, not enough to be able to move one of the blues festival stages there. But I don't think it needs to be, either ...

I mean, "like" is the operative word here.

But I digress, I agree with westwardloo, I think a more ambitious plan is possible, but not possible in the political climate of North America.

So, Gaukel yes, only 15 meters of right of way or so, but you also have the parking lot on the other side, that could have been incorporated as well, and now you're talking about a significant expansion of the area.

[Lebronj23]

Within the link there are more designs in including a few 38 story towers

[tomh009]

Jazz is in Waterloo.

The strip along Gaukel is maybe 6M wide, I think there might be 15M of width including the street and the opposing sidewalk. But that's still not very much, not enough to be able to move one of the blues festival stages there. But I don't think it needs to be, either ...

I mean, "like" is the operative word here.

But I digress, I agree with westwardloo, I think a more ambitious plan is possible, but not possible in the political climate of North America.

So, Gaukel yes, only 15 meters of right of way or so, but you also have the parking lot on the other side, that could have been incorporated as well, and now you're talking about a significant expansion of the area.

If you demolish the building (which is City of Kitchener, I think), absolutely. 😊

[taylortbb]

The square is very nice but I don't think it's big enough for the blues festival tents, maybe for some smaller thing like the children's stage.

I'm of two minds on the playground: it would be nice to have a more open space, but there aren't many playgrounds nearby so it would be good to have one.

I think if they incorporated Gaukel street better into the design there would be an opportunity for a larger public square that could be used for bigger events like Jazz and Octoberfest.  I think they should just put a playground in victoria park along David street.

I think they should incorporate Gaukel St better, but not because of a larger public square, but rather to avoid a dead public space that feels unsafe. The current plans have the central courtyard mostly screened off from the surrounding streets (access just at the corners), that'll be great when it's full of people, but when there aren't events it'll likely be empty space disconnected from the streets around it. I expect that will leave it feeling isolated, slightly unsafe, and therefore undesirable to be in. But if it was open to Gaukel St along that side I think it would alleviate it. Most good public spaces work either by being on the way to something (a street, or a pedestrian space that functions like a street), or by being open to such a space (e.g. the square at Kitchener City Hall. Skating there wouldn't feel good if it had a wall mostly separating it from King St).

[Momo26]

What is the lowest rise building in there proposed to be used for?

The reason I say focus on things that bring people together and quite frankly make DTK look nicer and desirable, is because I believe there are enoihh vacant business spaces to satisfy office needs for the next little bit. I also believe there are enough condo units in the pipeline. We run the risk of being just pure condo units and not driving what should be a cultural and entertainment CENTRAL for Kitchener.

Let's be honest. To outsiders (and literally to Kitchener folk in the 'burbs), DTK is not considered a first-class Canadian town. I'm thinking we change this.

We leverage the Greenspace already in existence at Victoria Park (an amazing and well laid out urban park, with water feature), and we maximize this space for something that says 'wow'.

Condo units are not going to wow anyone. Especially the kind we like to design in KW.

Am I alone in this?