What does DTK need?

[Rainrider22]

Oh you are very right on that my friend, it cuts into their social media time. Plus you might get cold or hot... But here is the thing, there are still hires that will do it gladly. They were taught the right things growing up and understand a good days work for pay, but more importantly, the right thing to do. Sir Robert A Peel said " The public are the police, and the police are the.public" Don't kid yourself, many still subscribe to this guiding principle. You only see the shit that the media shows..

[ijmorlan]

For a while WRPS had a couple of mounted officers. I thought that was great. Done properly, it’s similar to walking, but more visible, and when necessary much more inherently but gently forceful than people walking. Plus the kids love it.

[tomh009]

For a while WRPS had a couple of mounted officers. I thought that was great. Done properly, it’s similar to walking, but more visible, and when necessary much more inherently but gently forceful than people walking. Plus the kids love it.

I think they still do--but likely not in winter.

[ac3r]

I can't recall ever seeing mounted officers outside of parades. Would be an interesting way to police the streets, though mostly for show I guess. I can't picture a horse chase downtown haha so they would more act as a presence. Probably hard to justify the cost of that these days.

Having them walking around or using bicycles would be pretty good though and really help with the perception of public safety. With all the new residents living downtown and all the new students there as well, it would work great. Not sure if they still do it, but they also used to ride motorized dirt bikes on city paths too which extends the scope of more highly mobile patrols.

[tomh009]

By "mounted" I assumed on bicycles ... have not see officers on horses for ages.

[plam]

By "mounted" I assumed on bicycles ... have not see officers on horses for ages.

Crowd control...

[danbrotherston]

Yeah, that's honestly a good thing...it was pointless. They did use them in practice...but like, when there was a "gun sighted" situation in the block we lived on and the police closed the whole road and redirected Victoria St. traffic past our house, I was trying to talk to the cop on the horse, and like....I couldn't hear them from up there owing to the amount of car noise...I found a different cop and asked them if we could go home....

[Bytor]

By "mounted" I assumed on bicycles ... have not see officers on horses for ages.

Before the pandemic, they had mounted officers at BluesFest.

[ac3r]

A big problem is the atmosphere downtown. People don't want to walk around or run a business when the streets are full of people that make you want to avoid it all together. It's not a situation unique to Waterloo Region or Kitchener. Unfortunately it's largely the result of a hands off policy regarding petty crime, open air drug use and sales and spaces occupied by homeless people. We haven't managed to develop a suitable method to deal with that, so that hands off policy results in these issues. Our policy makers forgot to think about that part.

Of course this is a very unpopular opinion to have and social justice people will bury their heads in the sand about it, but most people know this is a major issue. People will obviously try to say no this isn't the reason and blame it on economics, real estate, automobiles, lack of things to do (besides eating out...that is not enough to keep a downtown alive) etc and yes they play a role, but visit any region of this continent with at least 500'000 people and you'll see these issues there as well.

[panamaniac]

A big problem is the atmosphere downtown. People don't want to walk around or run a business when the streets are full of people that make you want to avoid it all together. It's not a situation unique to Waterloo Region or Kitchener. Unfortunately it's largely the result of a hands off policy regarding petty crime, open air drug use and sales and spaces occupied by homeless people. We haven't managed to develop a suitable method to deal with that, so that hands off policy results in these issues. Our policy makers forgot to think about that part.

Of course this is a very unpopular opinion to have and social justice people will bury their heads in the sand about it, but most people know this is a major issue. People will obviously try to say no this isn't the reason and blame it on economics, real estate, automobiles, lack of things to do (besides eating out...that is not enough to keep a downtown alive) etc and yes they play a role, but visit any region of this continent with at least 500'000 people and you'll see these issues there as well.

To the extent that's the problem, the solution is to get used to it, istm.  They ain't going anywhere soon.

[Vojnik_Vahaj]

A big problem is the atmosphere downtown. People don't want to walk around or run a business when the streets are full of people that make you want to avoid it all together. It's not a situation unique to Waterloo Region or Kitchener. Unfortunately it's largely the result of a hands off policy regarding petty crime, open air drug use and sales and spaces occupied by homeless people. We haven't managed to develop a suitable method to deal with that, so that hands off policy results in these issues. Our policy makers forgot to think about that part.

Of course this is a very unpopular opinion to have and social justice people will bury their heads in the sand about it, but most people know this is a major issue. People will obviously try to say no this isn't the reason and blame it on economics, real estate, automobiles, lack of things to do (besides eating out...that is not enough to keep a downtown alive) etc and yes they play a role, but visit any region of this continent with at least 500'000 people and you'll see these issues there as well.

To the extent that's the problem, the solution is to get used to it, istm.  They ain't going anywhere soon.

There are other solutions, but they're VERY controversial(no I'm not thinking about killing anyone)

[tomh009]

A big problem is the atmosphere downtown. People don't want to walk around or run a business when the streets are full of people that make you want to avoid it all together. It's not a situation unique to Waterloo Region or Kitchener. Unfortunately it's largely the result of a hands off policy regarding petty crime, open air drug use and sales and spaces occupied by homeless people. We haven't managed to develop a suitable method to deal with that, so that hands off policy results in these issues. Our policy makers forgot to think about that part.

I live and work downtown, so I know a lot of people who walk downtown. Of those likely 100+ people, I am aware of only a single person who is uncomfortable in DTK. But maybe all the people who are uncomfortable with it live and work in the suburbs?

There is some drug use, and there are some homeless people: a pervasive problem in most cities, as you note, and certainly not exclusive to Canada. It is far from being crime-ridden, though.

As for policies, there are no silver bullets. Housing-first approaches tend to be more successful, but with the combination of high housing costs, lack of affordable housing, lack of mental health funding and ready availability of illegal drugs, this is not a simple problem to solve. If it were, there would be far more cities that have addressed this.

[ac3r]

I live and work downtown, so I know a lot of people who walk downtown. Of those likely 100+ people, I am aware of only a single person who is uncomfortable in DTK. But maybe all the people who are uncomfortable with it live and work in the suburbs?

There is some drug use, and there are some homeless people: a pervasive problem in most cities, as you note, and certainly not exclusive to Canada. It is far from being crime-ridden, though.

As for policies, there are no silver bullets. Housing-first approaches tend to be more successful, but with the combination of high housing costs, lack of affordable housing, lack of mental health funding and ready availability of illegal drugs, this is not a simple problem to solve. If it were, there would be far more cities that have addressed this.

People's perception of an environment has nothing to do with where they live in the city. When you are around it each day like most of us who live in urban cores are, yeah you get a bit desensitized to it I guess. But ultimately, nobody wants to be around that and if they claim otherwise they're full of shit. Nobody wants their community to be full of people who are high on drugs 18 hours a day or suffering from higher crime rates. And yes, it is crime ridden...the WRPS publishes data that shows downtown has some of the highest concentrations of various times in the region.

It all impacts the rest of the community. A sane person is going to seek a safe environment to live, work and play in which means many people are going to opt out of vising or living in certain areas, even if they wished to exist within that area. Downtowns and urban centres are fun and vibrant, but if social disorder becomes a prominent feature then people are going to wish to avoid it. Take a look at cities like Vancouver, San Francisco, Portland, Edmonton and so on where recent increases in social disorder have caused people to GTFO of the communities they once cherished.

Alas, yeah...we never seem to be capable of electing the right people for the job and so very little changes. The issue isn't specifically those who use drugs or suffer from severe psychiatric issues, it's that the people put in charge of improving that don't care to actually improve it. If someone is deciding where to buy a home for them and their children, or where to open a new business...chances are they're going to opt for somewhere with less visible issues and that unfortunately means the suburbs. New condos and retail spaces don't change that, because as the article says many who live in those condos don't care to go out and those retail spaces often sit vacant.

[dtkvictim]

I live and work downtown, so I know a lot of people who walk downtown. Of those likely 100+ people, I am aware of only a single person who is uncomfortable in DTK. But maybe all the people who are uncomfortable with it live and work in the suburbs?

There is some drug use, and there are some homeless people: a pervasive problem in most cities, as you note, and certainly not exclusive to Canada. It is far from being crime-ridden, though.

As for policies, there are no silver bullets. Housing-first approaches tend to be more successful, but with the combination of high housing costs, lack of affordable housing, lack of mental health funding and ready availability of illegal drugs, this is not a simple problem to solve. If it were, there would be far more cities that have addressed this.

The whole discussion of this article probably should have been in the "what does DTK need" thread, but anyways: It's incredible how we can have such drastically different experiences and perceptions from each other. I would estimate that the majority of people I know, which is a healthy mix of people who live downtown, used to live downtown, or live suburban, are uncomfortable to varying degrees downtown. Personally I am uncomfortable and unable to generally relax downtown, though I don't let it stop me from enjoying what downtown has to offer. Many people I know who live downtown do let it prevent them from going out, at least alone.

I also don't see nearly enough discussion about how gendered this problem is. I think this forum is mostly men so that probably contributes to the discourse. The things that woman have told me they've had mentally ill drug addicts yell at them (and then sometimes be followed) is absolutely shocking and makes me worry more than when I've been physically attacked. Start counting the number of solo woman out after dark compared to men; the massive difference isn't because men love downtown, it's because so many woman are afraid.

From my ties to Ottawa, it sounds like these same issues have gotten even worse there, and the few people I know from downtown there have left or floated the idea of leaving last time I met with them. Even the DND is moving 1000 employees due to safety concerns for the staff. Although I can't imagine anyone relocating to the building on the Mackenzie King Bridge will be any happier... So no, it's not just a KW issue. You can't find a Canadian city without these problems anymore. But I don't think it's something we can just ignore from an urbanist perspective. People and businesses will leave, and fewer people will move to or visit downtowns.

[tomh009]

People's perception of an environment has nothing to do with where they live in the city. When you are around it each day like most of us who live in urban cores are, yeah you get a bit desensitized to it I guess. But ultimately, nobody wants to be around that and if they claim otherwise they're full of shit. Nobody wants their community to be full of people who are high on drugs 18 hours a day or suffering from higher crime rates. And yes, it is crime ridden...the WRPS publishes data that shows downtown has some of the highest concentrations of various times in the region.

Oh, but the perceptions are indeed affected by where you live. If you see only the suburban lawnscape every day, seeing people who struggle every day to make it to the next is indeed going to be shocking.

But the downtown isn't "full of people who are high on drugs"--yes, there are those who are, but they are still a small minority. And while DTK may have more crime than the suburbs, that doesn't make it crime-ridden. Is Tokyo crime-ridden because it has a higher crime rate than Kyoto?

And while you say we don't elect the right people, you don't tell us what your solution is to these complex problems.

The whole discussion of this article probably should have been in the "what does DTK need" thread, but anyways: It's incredible how we can have such drastically different experiences and perceptions from each other. I would estimate that the majority of people I know, which is a healthy mix of people who live downtown, used to live downtown, or live suburban, are uncomfortable to varying degrees downtown. Personally I am uncomfortable and unable to generally relax downtown, though I don't let it stop me from enjoying what downtown has to offer. Many people I know who live downtown do let it prevent them from going out, at least alone.

I think one factor is that I live in a condo building with a secure parking garage, which mitigates some of the issues that I think you have experienced in the past. But, in general, the people in my building do not have an issue going out downtown for dinner or otherwise. Of course, everyone would love for our homelessness and drug problems to go away, but those issues are not keeping them from walking downtown.

I don't personally know anyone, male or female (both our building and my office are fairly evenly split) that has been physically or verbally assaulted. Yes, I also see the mentally-ill people who yell at no one, and at times switch their attention to you, but they are not typically aggressive. Not nice, but not unsafe either.

I do not by any means intend to belittle the problem we--and other cities--have, but I don't think it's preventing people from walking downtown. (Alone after dark, I really don't know, I have not explored that question.)