Charles St GRT terminal redevelopment

[bravado]

Is it just me or does London have far less curb appeal than KW? Many streets where homes are unkept, tired and in need of TLC, I don't see much of that here

London has had a much more significant fall from the industrial highs of the 20th century than KW has and it is an older city that was much more prominent as a local capital than KW ever was since we are closer to Hamilton + Toronto. That means there is just a lot more Victorian and Edwardian and pre-war neighbourhoods there.

Because it has so much more of an older core of buildings than we do, the suburban experiment of growth at the edges has really allowed a lot of spaces to hollow out and get dilapidated. Anyone with money doesn’t bother fixing anything up when a suburban option is readily available. Then you throw in centrally-located higher education and the associated student ghettoes and you get a pretty wild core of a city.

[ac3r]

Is it just me or does London have far less curb appeal than KW? Many streets where homes are unkept, tired and in need of TLC, I don't see much of that here

It's not just you. Even Londoners know London is a bit of a dump haha.

I've noticed some areas looking a lot worse in the last couple years, though. I put a lot of blame on who is now occupying many of these properties. In the last 5 years, the street my parents live on has had 10 homes sell, all but 2 of which were bought up by people who are now just renting them out to students. It's now what you'd expect. Snow is almost never shovelled, ice becomes a regular hazard, the lawns are a total disaster and the curbs usually have trash on them because the occupants can't seem to figure out why the recycling crews won't take the giant unfolded boxes, the old electronics they try to throw out or seem to believe there is some magical fairy that comes to clean up their green bin waste after a racoon gets into it.

Obviously those living there aren't fully responsible for mowing the lawns or even shovelling the snow, but come on. When I was young and a renter, I still cut my own damn grass and picked up any rubbish that didn't get picked up. All it takes is a couple weeks for a combination of lazy landlords and stupid youth to make a neighbourhood look horrible.

[danbrotherston]

Is it just me or does London have far less curb appeal than KW? Many streets where homes are unkept, tired and in need of TLC, I don't see much of that here

London has had a much more significant fall from the industrial highs of the 20th century than KW has and it is an older city that was much more prominent as a local capital than KW ever was since we are closer to Hamilton + Toronto. That means there is just a lot more Victorian and Edwardian and pre-war neighbourhoods there.

Because it has so much more of an older core of buildings than we do, the suburban experiment of growth at the edges has really allowed a lot of spaces to hollow out and get dilapidated. Anyone with money doesn’t bother fixing anything up when a suburban option is readily available. Then you throw in centrally-located higher education and the associated student ghettoes and you get a pretty wild core of a city.

This is a correct assessment. London has a much more substantial downtown and older areas (it was both bigger, but also, a single city, unlike the "tri-cities"--which is really more like two cities and 7-10 villages), but it's also suffered much more of the urban decay as a result...but I don't think this will necessarily stay forever....it is easier to fix urban areas than suburban areas, and our 1960's era sprawl (the majority of the inner suburbs) I think will be seeing some bad days in the future.

[dtkvictim]

Saw a post on reddit today about the terminal: https://old.reddit.com/r/kitchener/comme..._terminal/

Apparently no one there went out to actually look. It appears to be parking based on the signs and painted parking spots, although "No App Express Checkout" is a weird headline for that... Sorry I got glare directly on the QR code so it doesn't scan.

[danbrotherston]

*rolls eyes*....

It's magical how easily things become parking and how impossible it is to change afterwards. I really have to wonder how a decision like this gets made.

FWIW...I'm always confused on this...does the region own the site? Or does the city?

[ZEBuilder]

*rolls eyes*....

It's magical how easily things become parking and how impossible it is to change afterwards. I really have to wonder how a decision like this gets made.

FWIW...I'm always confused on this...does the region own the site? Or does the city?

From my understanding the vast majority is owned by the region and the city owns the parking lot on the Charles/Ontario corner.

[creative]

*rolls eyes*....

It's magical how easily things become parking and how impossible it is to change afterwards. I really have to wonder how a decision like this gets made.

FWIW...I'm always confused on this...does the region own the site? Or does the city?

It’s currently sitting there empty. Why not make a bit of money until there is a plan in place. Many will never take transit or bike to downtown for many reasons or don’t feel comfortable parking in garages. If it gets more people downtown spending money why not?

[neonjoe]

Maybe just holding hope that this is a sign that the transit hub construction is imminent and this will be temporarily consuming the parking spots on that site.

[KevinL]

*rolls eyes*....

It's magical how easily things become parking and how impossible it is to change afterwards. I really have to wonder how a decision like this gets made.

FWIW...I'm always confused on this...does the region own the site? Or does the city?

From my understanding the vast majority is owned by the region and the city owns the parking lot on the Charles/Ontario corner.

Correct, when it was built in the 80s it belonged to the City; when the Region took over transit in 2000 it passed to them.

[danbrotherston]

*rolls eyes*....

It's magical how easily things become parking and how impossible it is to change afterwards. I really have to wonder how a decision like this gets made.

FWIW...I'm always confused on this...does the region own the site? Or does the city?

It’s currently sitting there empty. Why not make a bit of money until there is a plan in place. Many will never take transit or bike to downtown for many reasons or don’t feel comfortable parking in garages. If it gets more people downtown spending money why not?

First of all, there's tons of parking, this doesn't enable anyone new to come downtown. If you aren't coming downtown because of a false belief there is no parking, this won't change that.

Second of all, I said exactly why in my post...because people will get used to parking here, then they will get angry when it gets taken away. Please, if you don't believe people will complain when this is closed, I have a bridge to sell you.

[bravado]

Bad uses of public space = easy, horrible feedback loops

Good uses of public space = insanely difficult, needs years of “consultation”, susceptible to any random veto

[creative]

It’s currently sitting there empty. Why not make a bit of money until there is a plan in place. Many will never take transit or bike to downtown for many reasons or don’t feel comfortable parking in garages. If it gets more people downtown spending money why not?

First of all, there's tons of parking, this doesn't enable anyone new to come downtown. If you aren't coming downtown because of a false belief there is no parking, this won't change that.

Second of all, I said exactly why in my post...because people will get used to parking here, then they will get angry when it gets taken away. Please, if you don't believe people will complain when this is closed, I have a bridge to sell you.

I as a resident of this city and a car owner I would most definitely go downtown more often and use this area to park. As I told you previously I am not comfortable parking in the downtown garages. And I couldn’t care less when it gets taken away for future development.

[panamaniac]

It’s currently sitting there empty. Why not make a bit of money until there is a plan in place. Many will never take transit or bike to downtown for many reasons or don’t feel comfortable parking in garages. If it gets more people downtown spending money why not?

First of all, there's tons of parking, this doesn't enable anyone new to come downtown. If you aren't coming downtown because of a false belief there is no parking, this won't change that.

Second of all, I said exactly why in my post...because people will get used to parking here, then they will get angry when it gets taken away. Please, if you don't believe people will complain when this is closed, I have a bridge to sell you.

Why would one be concerned that people might complain?  Somebody is always complaining about something.  It usually makes no difference, and when it does, it probably should.

[bravado]

To be honest, one of the hallmarks of municipal government is the immense power that any random complainer has - because the stakes and public engagement are so low.

[danbrotherston]

First of all, there's tons of parking, this doesn't enable anyone new to come downtown. If you aren't coming downtown because of a false belief there is no parking, this won't change that.

Second of all, I said exactly why in my post...because people will get used to parking here, then they will get angry when it gets taken away. Please, if you don't believe people will complain when this is closed, I have a bridge to sell you.

Why would one be concerned that people might complain?  Somebody is always complaining about something.  It usually makes no difference, and when it does, it probably should.

*blinks*...

You serious? You don't think politicians pander to complaining nimby and anti-bike lane crowds by cancelling or scaling back developments and bike lanes (or sidewalks, or whatever) that should have gone through?

Please, lets have a serious discussion here.