General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours

[Momo26]

I might be the only person to come to Ac3r's rescue here. All the things/issues he listed are objectively true. Everyone is entitled to their view but there seems to be a bit of rosy glasses bias happening on this forum.

Just because homlessness/drugs is in every city, doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to resolve ths issue.

I agree with the notion and also don't like the comparison to Detroit. It's like me saying 'well people in third world countries don't often get food or have limited selection so one shouldn't complain about increasing prices of food here...at least we have it!' (A different topic I realize but everyone should see the fault in that logic).

I've been the biggest advocate for Kitchener and namely trying to use DTK as my part of my pitch (recently trying to convince a friend who is looking to make his first home purchase to do it in KIT - he would need to be close to GO so the DTK angle. He is in the GTA. Why should I Sugar coat KW life. It doesn't come close. And I bring this is up because I found myself spending the gas money and travel time, to go to Toronto today after I drove through downtown and Uptown twice).

I recently took my family to KPL Central (other KPLs like Pioneers are garbage - yes, garbage...I dont know how my tax dollars were spent on there. Just for a gym and the programs are almost insta full. The summer camps were full by April. Ridiculous. Any wase...someone was taking their drugs in the washroom. In there for at least 20min. Still in there when I left. Is this a place I could leave my kids even if they were teens? I am have a bleeding heart for homeless, they never asked to be in that position. I work with some marginalized people in my line of work so don't take this as a dehumanization attempt. It isn't. It's an issue that are council and City Hall have not adequately dealt with. Period.

You know what I've waited and waited for the glow up of Kitchener and namely DTK my entire life. My SO and I believing it was always just 5 years away and look I get it, the pandemic response cratered a lot of the momentum...but we are at the point where we are giving up on this place. We haven't seen enough good things happening quite frankly and I feel like time is slipping away and we're not anywhere near retirement nor do we like Bumpkin country style life, at least not right now. I might need to make a decision and blow this Popsicle stand.

[Votemac]

It's just our monthly dose of this guy shitting on homeless and vulnerable people of Kitchener. 

[bravado]

But also, it’s not up to the person walking for groceries or to school to deal with vulnerable people. It’s reasonable to be angry and disappointed if that job is imposed on you while trying to exist in your environment.

On the other hand, I was just at a suburban plaza getting pizza this weekend and a man walked by screaming - I think it’s weird that we don’t link that guy to his suburban environment, we only do that for downtown + transit and it’s suspicuous. My suburban Cambridge life has encampments out in the forests that likely rival the size of the Victoria Park one, but they’re out of sight and out of mind/headlines.

[Marko]

I might be the only person to come to Ac3r's rescue here. All the things/issues he listed are objectively true. Everyone is entitled to their view but there seems to be a bit of rosy glasses bias happening on this forum.

Just because homlessness/drugs is in every city, doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to resolve ths issue.

I agree with the notion and also don't like the comparison to Detroit. It's like me saying 'well people in third world countries don't often get food or have limited selection so one shouldn't complain about increasing prices of food here...at least we have it!' (A different topic I realize but everyone should see the fault in that logic).

I've been the biggest advocate for Kitchener and  namely trying to use DTK as my part of my pitch (recently trying to convince a friend who is looking to make his first home purchase to do it in KIT - he would need to be close to GO so the DTK angle. He is in the GTA. Why should I Sugar coat KW life. It doesn't come close. And I bring this is up because I found myself spending the gas money and travel time, to go to Toronto today after I drove through downtown and Uptown twice).

I recently took my family to KPL Central (other KPLs like Pioneers are garbage - yes, garbage...I dont know how my tax dollars were spent on there. Just for a gym and the programs are almost insta full. The summer camps were full by April. Ridiculous. Any wase...someone was taking their drugs in the washroom. In there for at least 20min. Still in there when I left. Is this a place I could leave my kids even if they were teens? I am have  a bleeding heart for homeless, they never asked to be in that position. I work with some marginalized people in my line of work so don't take this as a dehumanization attempt. It isn't.  It's an issue that are council and City Hall have not adequately dealt with. Period.

You know what I've waited and waited for the glow up of Kitchener and namely DTK my entire life. My SO and I believing it was always just 5 years away and look I get it, the pandemic response cratered a lot of the momentum...but we are at the point where we are giving up on this place. We haven't seen enough good things happening quite frankly and I feel like time is slipping away and we're not anywhere near retirement nor do we like Bumpkin country style life, at least not right now. I might need to make a decision and blow this Popsicle stand.

I agree there are issues that are up to Government to solve that haven't been solved. It's fine for people to be angry – be angry with the City, the Region, the Province, and the Federal Governments. I don't have rose coloured glasses on the state of the city, my point is that every city has these issues.

My specific issue is the dehumanization of how we talk about these problems – particularly the people who shape our lived in environment, like Ac3r, who have a higher responsibility to build a city for everyone, yet respond with hyperbole and fear mongering.

Let's look at your specific example: you state someone is doing drugs in the KPL bathroom and therefore DTK isn't safe for you to leave your teenagers and you need to "blow this popsicle stand". Yet you didn't see this person doing drugs, you said they were still in the bathroom when they left.

Why do you assume they are doing drugs? Because they were in the bathroom for 20 minutes? Did you see them go in and profile them based on their look? It sounds like you didn't see them come out. If you were concerned about that, did you tell the KPL staff that someone was doing drugs in the bathroom so they could check and make sure that person didn't die of an overdose?

What if they had a personal issue that required using the bathroom, like a colostomy bag? What if that's the only space they have to be alone? Who are you to decide how long they use a bathroom?

This is fear mongering. Saying "I work with marginalized people" as a prop to validate this is further dehumanizing. People aren't props for your biases.

All I'm asking is that the people of this forum, especially those that work in the field of shaping the city, discuss the humans who live in this city as humans.

[ac3r]

I don't think it takes a genius to tell when someone is in a bathroom using drugs versus doing something with a colostomy bag. Gimme a break.

[Marko]

I don't think it takes a genius to tell when someone is in a bathroom using drugs versus doing something with a colostomy bag. Gimme a break.

Can you please share the signs you look for when observing a closed door to determine if someone is doing drugs behind it?

[danbrotherston]

I agree with Marko here.

But that example isn't even the most on point.

ac3r has referred to downtown as being "infested" with homeless drug addicts.

I really want to give Momo the benefit of the doubt here, but that is not a factual statement, that is a rhetorical hyperbolic and frankly hateful statement.

That's the most extreme example, but much of what ac3r says is not factual, but instead hyperbolic.

Momo is doing the same thing here, you describe your local library as "garbage". I have no idea how bad it is, I completely believe you that it is a terrible library. But unless it is literally being put in a dumpster and hauled away, calling it "garbage" is hyperbolic, not factual.

And that's fine or at least, defensible, hyperbole is a useful rhetorical tool for describing things, but using it excessively and especially negatively and divisively I don't think leads to particularly useful conversations. But the dehumanizing language--referring to human beings as an "infestation" for example--was a bit too much for me.

[ac3r]

I think he meant garbage as in the suburb satellite locations are old, drab and in dire need of updating. At least that's how I interpreted that. The downtown library had a nice renovation a few years ago but none of the other locations have seen any upgrades. The only recent satellite library is the one they put in St. Mary's High School back in 2004.

Waterloo Public Library has spent a bit more on improving things in comparison. There was the John M. Harper Branch built in 2011 (I was involved with that one) and they just opened the Eastside Branch last year. The libraries in Cambridge have seen some improvements too.

...that said, KPL is by far the largest and most important of the local libraries. They put a lot of money into other areas such as the arts or the technology centres or even just musical instrument loaning, so I can understand why they don't yet put much funding into expansion.

[Momo26]

I'm not perfect..far from it. And I apologize unreservingly if I offended anybody in my comments. I tried to use appropriate terminology and I proof read what I had typed out. I also try to approach what I post online as something that I would be confident enough to say in person face to face. I do not believe in being a kay board warrior...we have enough of those. No I did not see the individual doing drugs with my own eyes in the moment so I do stand corrected on that point; however I have a pretty good inclination that that's what was happening and I think everyone here would agree that this is something that has and does take place in the public stalls of many public washrooms around our city. Notifying staff that this may be what is happening did not cross my mind..1. I'm not looking to get anyone in trouble with the authorities and 2 . This person overdosing actually didn't cross my mind but I can keep that in mind going forward.

You are entitled to take what I said as a dehumanizing statement but I repeat again it was not my intent. In fact in the context of what this city has to offer and what it's promise is, I do not factor in homelessness as a primary decision making influence. Not directly related but I will say...if anything having a mixed demographic and growing up with a blended cohort of backgrounds, cultures, as well as income levels I feel makes a person more well-rounded and better prepared for the World at large. I don't believe in isolation or compartmentalizing people.

I have had colleagues approached, yelled at and at least one instance physically attacked by an individual downtown. Those are facts. And yes, to another point, it isn't a downtown only problem it's becoming an issue throughout the Tri-Cities.

I don't have the answers I don't think any of us or any one person here has all the answers, I'm just expressing how I feel. And I'm going to Hazard to guess that I'm not the only one at least in my generation, the feels this way and it's questioning whether they should continue to live their life here or go someplace else and I think that's a reasonable consideration that many people make in their life. This doesn't mean I'm going to up and leave if anything I'm more likely to stay.

I am pleased to see that we are having some Discord and intelligent conversation over these important topics.

[Momo26]

Regarding the kpl yes I didn't literally mean it's garbage and should be placed in the dumpster, but what I did mean to Ac3r's point, is the library itself (and other satellite locations) could have been bolstered up with significantly more books, resources, computers and other modern-day technology that you see at the central location KPL. With the exception of a single 3D printer, the library itself looks 30 to 40 years outdated. This can ultimately be somewhat easily rectified with proper resource allocation. It's honestly just part and parcel with what I find to be lackluster public and community space peppered throughout Suburban areas of Kitchener.

[danbrotherston]

I'm not perfect..far from it. And I apologize unreservingly if I offended anybody in my comments. I tried to use appropriate terminology and I proof read what I had typed out. I also try to approach what I post online as something that I would be confident enough to say in person face to face. I do not believe in being a kay board warrior...we have enough of those. No I did not see the individual doing drugs with my own eyes in the moment so I do stand corrected on that point; however I have a pretty good inclination that that's what was happening and I think everyone here would agree that this is something that has and does take place in the public stalls of many public washrooms around our city. Notifying staff that this may be what is happening did not cross my mind..1. I'm not looking to get anyone in trouble with the authorities and 2 . This person overdosing actually didn't cross my mind but I can keep that in mind going forward.

You are entitled to take what I said as a dehumanizing statement but I repeat again it was not my intent. In fact in the context of what this city has to offer and what it's promise is, I do not factor in homelessness as a primary decision making influence. Not directly related but I will say...if anything having a mixed demographic and growing up with a blended cohort of backgrounds, cultures, as well as income levels I feel makes a person more well-rounded and better prepared for the World at large. I don't believe in isolation or compartmentalizing people.

I have had colleagues approached, yelled at and at least one instance physically attacked by an individual downtown. Those are facts. And yes, to another point, it isn't a downtown only problem it's becoming an issue throughout the Tri-Cities.

I don't have the answers I don't think any of us or any one person here has all the answers, I'm just expressing how I feel. And I'm going to Hazard to guess that I'm not the only one at least in my generation, the feels this way and it's questioning whether they should continue to live their life here or go someplace else and I think that's a reasonable consideration that many people make in their life. This doesn't mean I'm going to up and leave if anything I'm more likely to stay.

I am pleased to see that we are having some Discord and intelligent conversation over these important topics.

FWIW....I didn't intent to suggest that what you said was dehumanising. That was specific to comments by the other poster.

My only objection to your statement was classifying hyperbolic and rhetorical statements as "objectively true". You can argue it's being pedantic and that wouldn't be entirely unfair.

[SF22]

Are you guys aware of the planned KPL branch for Southwest Kitchener due to be built near Bleams/Fischer Hallman? 14,000 square feet scheduled to open in 2024. The secondary branches of the KPL may not be state-of-the-art, but keep in mind that the WPL only had two branches until very recently (John Harper opened in 2009, and the east side branch just last year), so of course their buildings are going to feel nicer than what the KPL built between 1971 and 1982.

https://www.kpl.org/your-library/locatio...st-library

[Momo26]

I was not aware of that one! But I am very pleased to see that. That's almost exactly what I wanted to see go up near me (at least based on that pic). Whilst it is still not the closest, it will be the second closest so I will plan to utilize it. Thanks for sharing.

Edit: spelling

[tomh009]

Are you guys aware of the planned KPL branch for Southwest Kitchener due to be built near Bleams/Fischer Hallman? 14,000 square feet scheduled to open in 2024. The secondary branches of the KPL may not be state-of-the-art, but keep in mind that the WPL only had two branches until very recently (John Harper opened in 2009, and the east side branch just last year), so of course their buildings are going to feel nicer than what the KPL built between 1971 and 1982.

https://www.kpl.org/your-library/locatio...st-library

I also expect that KPL uses its usage/traffic data to allocate budget to its various locations. The satellite locations will never have as many books on the shelves but you can go online and reserve a book, and have it delivered to your local library branch. Super easy.

[Momo26]

Are you guys aware of the planned KPL branch for Southwest Kitchener due to be built near Bleams/Fischer Hallman? 14,000 square feet scheduled to open in 2024. The secondary branches of the KPL may not be state-of-the-art, but keep in mind that the WPL only had two branches until very recently (John Harper opened in 2009, and the east side branch just last year), so of course their buildings are going to feel nicer than what the KPL built between 1971 and 1982.

https://www.kpl.org/your-library/locatio...st-library

I also expect that KPL uses its usage/traffic data to allocate budget to its various locations. The satellite locations will never have as many books on the shelves but you can go online and reserve a book, and have it delivered to your local library branch. Super easy.

Great suggestion for sure and a nice way to still have access to all the books circulating in the KPL system.