368 Ottawa Street South | 8 fl | Proposed

[ac3r]

Saint Mary and Saint Maurice Coptic Orthodox Church is proposing an 8 floor affordable housing project at 368 Ottawa Street South designed by R. Tome & Associates, which is located roughly 100 meters from Mill Station. The subject property is located directly next to the church, bordering Ottawa Street and Pattandon Avenue and currently holds a number of single family homes which would be subject to demolition.

The project proposes a single 8 floor building containing a total of 152 residential units, with a balanced mix of 1 and 2 bedroom (as well as some 2 bedroom+den) units. A total of 158 parking spaces are proposed, with 48 on the surface and 110 contained underground. Secure bike storage is also proposed for visitors and residents. Building amenities for residents include proposed balconies on the units, a private patio, a play area for children, exercise room, lounge, lockers/storage and general landscaping features (gardens, plants etc).

Supporting documents can be found on the City of Kitchener website: https://app2.kitchener.ca/AppDocs/OpenDa...648927.pdf

[bravado]

Saint Mary and Saint Maurice Coptic Orthodox Church is proposing an 8 floor affordable housing project at 368 Ottawa Street South designed by R. Tome & Associates, which is located roughly 100 meters from Mill Station. The subject property is located directly next to the church, bordering Ottawa Street and Pattandon Avenue and currently holds a number of single family homes which would be subject to demolition.

The project proposes a single 8 floor building containing a total of 152 residential units, with a balanced mix of 1 and 2 bedroom (as well as some 2 bedroom+den) units. A total of 158 parking spaces are proposed, with 48 on the surface and 110 contained underground. Secure bike storage is also proposed for visitors and residents. Building amenities for residents include proposed balconies on the units, a private patio, a play area for children, exercise room, lounge, lockers/storage and general landscaping features (gardens, plants etc).

Supporting documents can be found on the City of Kitchener website: https://app2.kitchener.ca/AppDocs/OpenDa...648927.pdf

This seems like exactly the sort of project that should be popping up 100m from an LRT stop. Love it on quick review.

[ac3r]

It may not be a nice looking building, but more housing is always welcome. Since it's next to Mill Station, it'll be a handy location and help densify yet another transit-oriented development node that is outside of the direct downtown/midtown/uptown cores. Hopefully this can get approved without much opposition from existing neighbours.

[panamaniac]

I doubt neighbours’ opposition will carry much weight, although I’d be a bit sceptical about putting a driveway on Pattandon Ave.

Trivia - the street name “Pattandon” comes from the names of the wives of the two original home builders on the street (circa 1952).

[tomh009]

152 affordable units is excellent news. Taking this into consideration, I will not complain about the appearance of the building.

[mastermind]

Why so many parking spots? It's right near the LRT, and is affordable housing, certainly it could be made even more affordable by assuming a certain portion of the tenants won't own a car?

[nms]

Why so many parking spots? It's right near the LRT, and is affordable housing, certainly it could be made even more affordable by assuming a certain portion of the tenants won't own a car?

Purely speculation, but it's possible that the majority of the surface spots are intended for spillover parking from the church itself during peak times.

[ac3r]

It's a lot of parking, but at least most are underground. 48 surface spaces isn't a big deal and a good chunk of those would be reserved for visitors/deliveries. I have no problem with parking if it's hidden away underground or in a podium. You can't force everyone onto transit simply by making it more inconvenient to park their car. Most people aren't going to ditch their car just because they live somewhere with few spaces...for most, they're a necessity when you don't live in a city with high density.

[plam]

It's a lot of parking, but at least most are underground. 48 surface spaces isn't a big deal and a good chunk of those would be reserved for visitors/deliveries. I have no problem with parking if it's hidden away underground or in a podium. You can't force everyone onto transit simply by making it more inconvenient to park their car. Most people aren't going to ditch their car just because they live somewhere with few spaces...for most, they're a necessity when you don't live in a city with high density.

I kind of disagree here. If it's a pain to have a car, fewer people will have cars (especially second cars). There are probably numbers about this somewhere.

Underground/podium parking is also super expensive, which is... strange... for affordable housing.

[tomh009]

Most people aren't going to ditch their car just because they live somewhere with few spaces

No, but some people will choose a building (which is less expensive because it has) fewer spaces because the car is a big cost as is not critical for them. Others will skip those buildings.

Avoiding parking minima gives people that choice.

[ijmorlan]

I would almost go so far as to say that it makes no sense to make “affordable” housing with motor vehicle parking. By definition, affordable housing needs to leave out the fancy expensive upgrades: you wouldn’t put SubZero refrigerators or avant garde lighting fixtures in an affordable unit, so why would you put parking there?

At the same time I recognize that it’s precisely the people who need affordable housing who might need a space for their low-end car. But looking at the big picture it would make sense to have at least one area of the city where we make sure that a car truly isn’t needed, and put the affordable housing in areas that are designed that way. Of course, we don’t get to design the whole city all at once, which makes this harder.

[ac3r]

I think a lot of "lower income people" rely on cars actually. It's often a misconception that those without a lot of money take the bus or whatever. Yes, transit works for a lot of them but the transit system in Waterloo Region is also pretty constricting. It can take over an hour or more to commute through this city if you need to take various transfers. I grew up working class and my parents didn't have a lot of money, but they also couldn't take the bus because it took so long. They had to rely on a cheap car.

If you're living in Kitchener and working in Cambridge in a factory or working in a store at Conestoga Mall, you can't waste 2 hours of your day taking various buses/the LRT as it's a huge time sink. It can be much easier to buy a junky used car that can get them around the city in 20 minutes. We can't forget that affordable does not always mean pinching every cent you can, it also means using your time economically which is especially true if you're not only working, but have second jobs, are educating yourself, have children to take care of etc.

[Rainrider22]

Just as an FYI, my work allows me to make a lot of observations about vehicles in relation to Cooperative housing and 'affordable" house. You would be very surprised at the amount of high end vehicles parked in these lots. I often ask myself, how the heck do they afford these vehicles that I cant afford.... but I know the answer...

[ijmorlan]

Just as an FYI, my work allows me to make a lot of observations about vehicles in relation to Cooperative housing and 'affordable" house.  You would be very surprised at the amount of high end vehicles parked in these lots.  I often ask myself, how the heck do they afford these vehicles that I cant afford.... but I know the answer...

Actually, I’m not particularly clear on what you are alleging.

Re: car usage, I think it depends in part on what we mean by “affordable housing”. If we’re talking about an alternative to homelessness, it’s obvious that parking should not be included: it makes more sense to get 50 people off the street with no parking than 40 with parking (who probably can’t afford a vehicle anyway). But if we’re just talking about making sure that accommodation is available at a lower price point than it is in the larger market, then as ac3r points out many of these people don’t have good alternatives to vehicle use.

[Acitta]

I think a lot of "lower income people" actually rely on cars actually. It's often a misconception that those without a lot of money take the bus or whatever. Yes, transit works for a lot of them but the transit system in Waterloo Region is also pretty constricting. It can take over an hour or more to commute through this city if you need to take various transfers. I grew up working class and my parents didn't have a lot of money, but they also couldn't take the bus because it took so long. They had to rely on a cheap car.

If you're living in Kitchener and working in Cambridge in a factory or working in a store at Conestoga Mall, you can't waste 2 hours of your day taking various buses/the LRT as it's a huge time sink. It can be much easier to buy a junky used car that can get them around the city in 20 minutes. We can't forget that affordable does not always mean pinching every cent you can, it also means using your time economically which is especially true if you're not only working, but have second jobs, are educating yourself, have children to take care of etc.

You need to consider how the rise of the e-bike has changed things. While many people may not have considered a regular bicycle to be viable for commuting compared to transit or owning a car, an e-bike is faster than a regular bike and much cheaper than buying a car. I have never owned a car in my life and have used a bicycle as a primary form of transportation. My e-bike has become my primary mode of transportation, even over my recumbent bike (I have been riding recumbents since 1992). With the increased cost of housing, the expense of owning a car has become less viable for many people, but you can do almost everything on an e-bike than you can in a car, so there may be a lot less need for parking in new developments than there used to be. If I was in a financial position to buy a condo, I would be looking for secure bike parking rather than car parking.