TEK Tower (30 Francis) | 45 fl | U/C

[dtkvictim]

I live in an ancient (by Kitchener standards) building. The hardwood floor is quite worn, there are no modern finishes, and there are completely random elements exposed from the past 100 years of previous uses. However, there are no upgrades that could convince me to accept half as much space... My place is clean and has the necessities, and the non-restrictive amount of space allows me to make it into a home.

Condos of the same size basically don't exist, it's no wonder people don't see them as a real alternative to houses.

How big is it, if you don't mind me asking?

Roughly 1000sqft, though it's almost wall free which makes the space quite flexible. Obviously, condos that size exist from the 80s and 90s, but they are 1) not really being built anymore, and 2) an increasingly tiny fraction of the total housing market.

[tomh009]

Roughly 1000sqft, though it's almost wall free which makes the space quite flexible. Obviously, condos that size exist from the 80s and 90s, but they are 1) not really being built anymore, and 2) an increasingly tiny fraction of the total housing market.

Yes ... very few 1000+ sqft units in new buildings. Some renovation-type condos (Arrow, Eaton, Kaufman) have bigger units but in new-build condo buildings those are rare.

[CP42]

Pricing list is out.

Some highlights:
1) $561,000 for a unit less than 400sqft - and that’s before floor premiums or parking. 
2) The 884sqft 3 bed we discussed is $885,000 - which would come to actually $905,000 after the $20,000 floor premium (they’re on the top 3 floors). 

[Joedelay Highhoe]

WTF.... those floorplans and pricing are depressing. Is it wrong to hope for a major market crash? Or a significant recession?

[taylortbb]

WTF.... those floorplans and pricing are depressing. Is it wrong to hope for a major market crash? Or a significant recession?

I expect Q Condos will be significantly cheaper per square foot, and a nicer building. Charlie West (same developer as Q) and DTK (same developer as TEK) were on sale around the same time, and DTK was way more expensive for a far shittier building. IN8's strategy is to sell to Toronto investors (their main sales offices for DTK was in Markham), who don't realize they're overpaying because they're comparing against Toronto prices.

[taylortbb]

Roughly 1000sqft, though it's almost wall free which makes the space quite flexible. Obviously, condos that size exist from the 80s and 90s, but they are 1) not really being built anymore, and 2) an increasingly tiny fraction of the total housing market.

Yes ... very few 1000+ sqft units in new buildings. Some renovation-type condos (Arrow, Eaton, Kaufman) have bigger units but in new-build condo buildings those are rare.

I don't think it's that rare. Charlie West had 17 tower suites over 1000 sq ft, and another 7 in the McGillivray floors. There were also 25 units that were 970-999 sq ft, which is pretty close to 1000 sq ft.

24 units of 305 isn't a lot, but it's more than enough for demand. When they added 5 more floors, the additional floors had a new layout which split the 1000+ sq ft units into two smaller units, as the 1000+ sq ft units had been by far the slowest to sell. When I looked at the price list, months after most of the 1000+ sq ft units had been available, less than half had been sold. 

IN8 just builds really tiny units. DTK was sold around the same time as Charlie West and has tiny units, while Charlie West has larger ones. We'll have to see what Momentum does with Q Condos.

[CP42]

WTF.... those floorplans and pricing are depressing. Is it wrong to hope for a major market crash? Or a significant recession?

I expect Q Condos will be significantly cheaper per square foot, and a nicer building. Charlie West (same developer as Q) and DTK (same developer as TEK) were on sale around the same time, and DTK was way more expensive for a far shittier building. IN8's strategy is to sell to Toronto investors (their main sales offices for DTK was in Markham), who don't realize they're overpaying because they're comparing against Toronto prices.

100% accurate IMO. I wonder if they are trying to speed up sales of TEK Tower before occupancy of DTK because the quality will likely not be anything to write home about.

[CP42]

I expect Q Condos will be significantly cheaper per square foot, and a nicer building. Charlie West (same developer as Q) and DTK (same developer as TEK) were on sale around the same time, and DTK was way more expensive for a far shittier building. IN8's strategy is to sell to Toronto investors (their main sales offices for DTK was in Markham), who don't realize they're overpaying because they're comparing against Toronto prices.

100% accurate IMO. I wonder if they are trying to speed up sales of TEK Tower before occupancy of DTK because the quality will likely not be anything to write home about.

I sure hope nobody from the Region falls into this marketing trap and it’s only those from the GTA who are too lazy to look at proper market comparables.

Much better options in Q Condos and the next phase of Station Park which will both be coming to the market in coming months if you want higher quality and lower prices.

[ac3r]

Over half a million dollars for 400 square feet? Haha. My damn garage is bigger than that. This country is a mess.

[nms]

"Despite pandemic push for larger spaces, micro-condos are here to stay" Toronto Star, March 3, 2022

The Star also examined some of those applications and found multiple units including junior one-bedroom units at 408 square feet and studio apartments at 315 square feet.

By comparison, 315 square feet is slightly smaller than two standard parking spaces.

It’s possible Toronto could end up with far too many tiny units, and not enough diverse inventory, said John Pasalis, the president of the Realosophy brokerage in Toronto.

“The only thing we’re building for rental supply are quite frankly condominiums, and the ones that are being built are ones that investors want, which tend to be very small units,” he said, noting they’re less expensive to build and usually have higher returns.

He said a larger unit might cost less per square foot to buy, but the rent relative to the purchase price is better for a smaller unit, as a 400-square-foot condo could go for close to $2,000 a month in rent, while an 800-square-foot condo may not be double the rent, despite being double the square footage, he explained.

And while units are getting smaller and smaller in size, the cost to rent or buy the units has continued to rise, he said.

“They’re quite expensive. The incomes you would need to even rent out a 500-square-foot condo are quite high,” he said.

According to the National Bank of Canada, the average household income needed to buy a condo in Toronto in 2021 would be $137,145 and prospective buyers would need to save for close to five years to save for a down payment at a savings rate of 10 per cent.

As well, the average median price of a condo in Toronto at the end of 2021 was $710,087, according to the Toronto Region Real Estate Board. That’s up from $572,948 before the pandemic, in 2019.

This is the first time that I have heard of "junior one-bedroom apartments"  Where do those fit compared to a bachelor and/or studio apartment?

[Kodra24]

How big is it, if you don't mind me asking?

Roughly 1000sqft, though it's almost wall free which makes the space quite flexible. Obviously, condos that size exist from the 80s and 90s, but they are 1) not really being built anymore, and 2) an increasingly tiny fraction of the total housing market.

I used to own a condo at 539 Belmont St W (Belmont Village, completed 2012) and only 2 units per floor were 1-bdrm (approximately 740sqft) rest were all 1,000 sqft or quite a bit higher, especially the corner units

I guess that building would be the outlier however - plus it's only 11 floors high

[Lebronj23]

Some environmental drilling on site today 

[attachment=8169]

[Rainrider22]

I wonder if I could scoop up that perennial grass before they destroy it !!

[tomh009]

"Despite pandemic push for larger spaces, micro-condos are here to stay" Toronto Star, March 3, 2022

The Star also examined some of those applications and found multiple units including junior one-bedroom units at 408 square feet and studio apartments at 315 square feet.

This is the first time that I have heard of "junior one-bedroom apartments"  Where do those fit compared to a bachelor and/or studio apartment?

I really don't see a problem with offering some studio apartments in the 300-400 sqft range. It's quite a workable living space for a single person and the lack of bedroom walls makes it much more usable.

The real problem comes in if that's all that is being built, though.

[CP42]

Darryl Firsten, President of IN8, offered to convert the Francis facing ground floor to commercial mixed-use (as opposed to fitness centre previously) in response to concerns over lack of commercial space / street engagement. 

He also proposed to match donations dollar for dollar towards the already incorporated affordable housing development which they have partnered with, until they reach their fundraising objective. 

States he wants to get shovels in the ground as soon as the ground thaws (even though they haven’t started sales yet?).

Firsten is pressing on having the project approved tonight, despite council/mayor indicating even if they voted on it that it would still require final approval on the 21st. (I’m not too well-versed in municipal proceedings)

It’s quite interesting seeing the older councillor object while the younger ones are trying to push this forward. Older councillor suggested deferral for a month, while one younger suggested final approval tonight and another suggested allowing another floor if they don’t give final approval tonight. 

Councillors are also considering the need for balconies on the podium. In which IN8 said it would reduce the floor space too much, council suggested allowing balconies to protrude over the sidewalk/public space, which planning indicated they would support, given encroachment agreements were reached with the City (for Francis) and the Region (for Charles).