St. Patrick's celebrations

[clasher]

I imagine the police walking around the Oktoberfest tents are paid overtime by the O-fest people, not just part of the regular operations. Not to say there isn't a cost to region when some drunks get out of hand off festhall property.

[jordan2423]

Oktoberfest is an event where most if not all the money goes towards private pockets. So I don't get what your point is. I can't think of anything anywhere in any city where an event directly helps public institutions.

I guess the question is, how much money and other benefits does the Oktoberfest bring into the region vs this St. Patrick's Day party.  Almost certainly no one benefits from this 1-day event on Ezra.

For example, Oktoberfest raises $1.5M a year for non-profit organization. Ezra event is $0.
Oktoberfest doesn't allow underage drinking, Ezra does.
Economic benefit of Oktoberfest is $22M+/year. Ezra, pretty much unknown, but most likely pretty close to $0.  That $22M translates into jobs, btw.  We're pretty much certain the only jobs created by the Ezra event is OT for emergency services in the area, plus work for people OUTSIDE the region, as we had to hire reinforcements from Peel region.

It's unlikely the Ezra St event would ever be made official. It's a time for under agers and young adults to drink illegally (and other stuff) on the streets and pass out. Making it official would probably kill the event all together, or at least make it very small.  

I do believe that at some point, though, things are going to get to out of hand and it will be banned outright.

Amazing that our police guy Larkin thought they'd control it better this year...he's off on pretty much everything.

Considering you have no evidential basis to support any of those numbers for ezra, your numbers are pretty much better off not even mentioning. 
You're comparing a 1 day event to an event that is pretty much 2-3 weeks long.

There's literally no point in comparing numbers.

As someone who was working on the ground with Laurier students that year - the problem with the tent party was that your ticket required you to show up at a certain time (8am/10am/1pm/4pm? or similar) , if you missed it your specific time your ticket was no longer valid, and once you left you were not permitted to re-enter.

If it had been run as any normal organized festival/tent party (security at gate, enter/exit as you please) it would have been much more popular. Many of the students I spoke to (several hundred, so this is not a small sample size) went but left because they got too cold and didn't bring a jacket, or they were hungry and wanted to go get food (or have a less expensive drink at home), not all of their friends could get tickets, or they lost track of time/got held up and missed their limited window for entry. 

I can't say, in their position, I wouldn't do the same - I would rather go hang out with all of my friends on Ezra where we can come & go as we please than have to show up before 10am and pay $12/drink for the rest of the day with no chance of reprieve from the cold.

They also combined the tent party with a concert (The Chainsmokers) which was just silly.

[ijmorlan]

As someone who was working on the ground with Laurier students that year - the problem with the tent party was that your ticket required you to show up at a certain time (8am/10am/1pm/4pm? or similar) , if you missed it your specific time your ticket was no longer valid, and once you left you were not permitted to re-enter.

If it had been run as any normal organized festival/tent party (security at gate, enter/exit as you please) it would have been much more popular. Many of the students I spoke to (several hundred, so this is not a small sample size) went but left because they got too cold and didn't bring a jacket, or they were hungry and wanted to go get food (or have a less expensive drink at home), not all of their friends could get tickets, or they lost track of time/got held up and missed their limited window for entry. 

This is the kind of stuff that tempts me to become a Libertarian. It reminds me of the abortive Toronto program to have non-hotdog food carts. Instead of just revising the bylaws to allow them with reasonable regulation, they required people to sign up, buy a specific cart from the city, and operate under restrictive rules that would make McDonald’s executives blush. It seems that our city governments attract the wrong sort of person to work for them: people who think that what everybody else does needs to be regulated and controlled down to the smallest detail.

Whereas the right way to do it is to apply regulation with a light touch: identify real problems that are actually worth spending public resources addressing, and construct minimal interventions to do so.

Nothing wrong with running a tent party, but run it like a normal one. Thanks for passing along those details. When I heard about the sanctioned event I thought it was a good idea, and I still do. But a tent party can’t be run like the zoning department.

[jeffster]

I guess the question is, how much money and other benefits does the Oktoberfest bring into the region vs this St. Patrick's Day party.  Almost certainly no one benefits from this 1-day event on Ezra.

For example, Oktoberfest raises $1.5M a year for non-profit organization. Ezra event is $0.
Oktoberfest doesn't allow underage drinking, Ezra does.
Economic benefit of Oktoberfest is $22M+/year. Ezra, pretty much unknown, but most likely pretty close to $0.  That $22M translates into jobs, btw.  We're pretty much certain the only jobs created by the Ezra event is OT for emergency services in the area, plus work for people OUTSIDE the region, as we had to hire reinforcements from Peel region.

It's unlikely the Ezra St event would ever be made official. It's a time for under agers and young adults to drink illegally (and other stuff) on the streets and pass out. Making it official would probably kill the event all together, or at least make it very small.  

I do believe that at some point, though, things are going to get to out of hand and it will be banned outright.

Amazing that our police guy Larkin thought they'd control it better this year...he's off on pretty much everything.

Considering you have no evidential basis to support any of those numbers for ezra, your numbers are . 
You're comparing a 1 day event to an event that is pretty much 2-3 weeks long.

There's literally no point in comparing numbers.

As someone who was working on the ground with Laurier students that year - the problem with the tent party was that your ticket required you to show up at a certain time (8am/10am/1pm/4pm? or similar) , if you missed it your specific time your ticket was no longer valid, and once you left you were not permitted to re-enter.

If it had been run as any normal organized festival/tent party (security at gate, enter/exit as you please) it would have been much more popular. Many of the students I spoke to (several hundred, so this is not a small sample size) went but left because they got too cold and didn't bring a jacket, or they were hungry and wanted to go get food (or have a less expensive drink at home), not all of their friends could get tickets, or they lost track of time/got held up and missed their limited window for entry. 

I can't say, in their position, I wouldn't do the same - I would rather go hang out with all of my friends on Ezra where we can come & go as we please than have to show up before 10am and pay $12/drink for the rest of the day with no chance of reprieve from the cold.

They also combined the tent party with a concert (The Chainsmokers) which was just silly.

For someone that stated my numbers for Ezra are pretty much better off not even mentioning, you go onto to say that Oktoberfest is 2-3 week event when it's 9 days. Not even close to two weeks. But whatever.

Since you're an expert with the Ezra event; what are the net benefits to the community? Obviously if I said it's zero and you say that that is incorrect, so enlighten me. I explained how Oktoberfest benefited the community (in terms of donations in excess of $1M plus job creation, and I'll add, a boost to our tourist and exposure to the region). I won't included the $22M that is earned for the event itself and the vendors, the money lines the pockets of the those people. But I would for sure love to have info on Ezra. So far, the only number I could work out was roughly was about $30,000 to the Peel police.

I'm just interesting in a good discussion.

One thing I will add; Ezra is an exclusive event. Ocktoberfest in an inclusive event. That's important to remember.

[tomh009]

The police chief is looking to wind down the party in 3-5 years. Not clear how he is expecting to achieve that.
https://www.therecord.com/news-story/833...o-5-years/

[panamaniac]

The police chief is looking to wind down the party in 3-5 years. Not clear how he is expecting to achieve that.
https://www.therecord.com/news-story/833...o-5-years/

Perhaps he can devise a way to encourage Boomers to attend.  That would make it very uncool! 

I wonder what the impact would be if they focused on keeping Ezra open to traffic throughout the day?

[Coke6pk]

Considering you have no evidential basis to support any of those numbers for ezra, your numbers are . 
You're comparing a 1 day event to an event that is pretty much 2-3 weeks long.

There's literally no point in comparing numbers.

As someone who was working on the ground with Laurier students that year - the problem with the tent party was that your ticket required you to show up at a certain time (8am/10am/1pm/4pm? or similar) , if you missed it your specific time your ticket was no longer valid, and once you left you were not permitted to re-enter.

If it had been run as any normal organized festival/tent party (security at gate, enter/exit as you please) it would have been much more popular. Many of the students I spoke to (several hundred, so this is not a small sample size) went but left because they got too cold and didn't bring a jacket, or they were hungry and wanted to go get food (or have a less expensive drink at home), not all of their friends could get tickets, or they lost track of time/got held up and missed their limited window for entry. 

I can't say, in their position, I wouldn't do the same - I would rather go hang out with all of my friends on Ezra where we can come & go as we please than have to show up before 10am and pay $12/drink for the rest of the day with no chance of reprieve from the cold.

They also combined the tent party with a concert (The Chainsmokers) which was just silly.

For someone that stated my numbers for Ezra are pretty much better off not even mentioning, you go onto to say that Oktoberfest is 2-3 week event when it's 9 days. Not even close to two weeks. But whatever.

Since you're an expert with the Ezra event; what are the net benefits to the community? Obviously if I said it's zero and you say that that is incorrect, so enlighten me. I explained how Oktoberfest benefited the community (in terms of donations in excess of $1M plus job creation, and I'll add, a boost to our tourist and exposure to the region). I won't included the $22M that is earned for the event itself and the vendors, the money lines the pockets of the those people. But I would for sure love to have info on Ezra. So far, the only number I could work out was roughly was about $30,000 to the Peel police.

I'm just interesting in a good discussion.

One thing I will add; Ezra is an exclusive event. Ocktoberfest in an inclusive event. That's important to remember.

I will agree that saying Ezra has ZERO economic benefits is wrong, but I would also say the benefits would be minimal.

Yes, out of towners booked hotels.  Taxi and Uber drivers likely made bank.  "Some" alcohol would of been purchased at local beer stores/LCBO's, but a fair number would of came in on the school buses too (Those buses likely rented in the municipality in which they reside). But other than that, I couldn't see much to stimulate our economy.  (I would also doubt restaurants benefited, with the exception of any Taco Bell's or McD's open at 3 am)

Coke

[urbd]

Why is it so hard to actually close the street, charge a $5 or $8 entry fee, and have security and vendors inside? But the party needs to (and probably will) stay on the street! Were none of you students before? Never had any fun?

[jamincan]

Were none of you students before? Never had any fun?

I'm not inherently opposed to a street party, but seriously? People can have fun without getting hammered in the middle of the street.

[jordan2423]

I guess the question is, how much money and other benefits does the Oktoberfest bring into the region vs this St. Patrick's Day party.  Almost certainly no one benefits from this 1-day event on Ezra.

For example, Oktoberfest raises $1.5M a year for non-profit organization. Ezra event is $0.
Oktoberfest doesn't allow underage drinking, Ezra does.
Economic benefit of Oktoberfest is $22M+/year. Ezra, pretty much unknown, but most likely pretty close to $0.  That $22M translates into jobs, btw.  We're pretty much certain the only jobs created by the Ezra event is OT for emergency services in the area, plus work for people OUTSIDE the region, as we had to hire reinforcements from Peel region.

It's unlikely the Ezra St event would ever be made official. It's a time for under agers and young adults to drink illegally (and other stuff) on the streets and pass out. Making it official would probably kill the event all together, or at least make it very small.  

I do believe that at some point, though, things are going to get to out of hand and it will be banned outright.

Amazing that our police guy Larkin thought they'd control it better this year...he's off on pretty much everything.

Considering you have no evidential basis to support any of those numbers for ezra, your numbers are pretty much better off not even mentioning. 
You're comparing a 1 day event to an event that is pretty much 2-3 weeks long.

There's literally no point in comparing numbers.

As someone who was working on the ground with Laurier students that year - the problem with the tent party was that your ticket required you to show up at a certain time (8am/10am/1pm/4pm? or similar) , if you missed it your specific time your ticket was no longer valid, and once you left you were not permitted to re-enter.

If it had been run as any normal organized festival/tent party (security at gate, enter/exit as you please) it would have been much more popular. Many of the students I spoke to (several hundred, so this is not a small sample size) went but left because they got too cold and didn't bring a jacket, or they were hungry and wanted to go get food (or have a less expensive drink at home), not all of their friends could get tickets, or they lost track of time/got held up and missed their limited window for entry. 

I can't say, in their position, I wouldn't do the same - I would rather go hang out with all of my friends on Ezra where we can come & go as we please than have to show up before 10am and pay $12/drink for the rest of the day with no chance of reprieve from the cold.

They also combined the tent party with a concert (The Chainsmokers) which was just silly.

As someone who was working on the ground with Laurier students that year - the problem with the tent party was that your ticket required you to show up at a certain time (8am/10am/1pm/4pm? or similar) , if you missed it your specific time your ticket was no longer valid, and once you left you were not permitted to re-enter.

If it had been run as any normal organized festival/tent party (security at gate, enter/exit as you please) it would have been much more popular. Many of the students I spoke to (several hundred, so this is not a small sample size) went but left because they got too cold and didn't bring a jacket, or they were hungry and wanted to go get food (or have a less expensive drink at home), not all of their friends could get tickets, or they lost track of time/got held up and missed their limited window for entry. 

This is the kind of stuff that tempts me to become a Libertarian. It reminds me of the abortive Toronto program to have non-hotdog food carts. Instead of just revising the bylaws to allow them with reasonable regulation, they required people to sign up, buy a specific cart from the city, and operate under restrictive rules that would make McDonald’s executives blush. It seems that our city governments attract the wrong sort of person to work for them: people who think that what everybody else does needs to be regulated and controlled down to the smallest detail.

Whereas the right way to do it is to apply regulation with a light touch: identify real problems that are actually worth spending public resources addressing, and construct minimal interventions to do so.

Nothing wrong with running a tent party, but run it like a normal one. Thanks for passing along those details. When I heard about the sanctioned event I thought it was a good idea, and I still do. But a tent party can’t be run like the zoning department.

You're welcome.

[jordan2423]

Considering you have no evidential basis to support any of those numbers for ezra, your numbers are . 
You're comparing a 1 day event to an event that is pretty much 2-3 weeks long.

There's literally no point in comparing numbers.

As someone who was working on the ground with Laurier students that year - the problem with the tent party was that your ticket required you to show up at a certain time (8am/10am/1pm/4pm? or similar) , if you missed it your specific time your ticket was no longer valid, and once you left you were not permitted to re-enter.

If it had been run as any normal organized festival/tent party (security at gate, enter/exit as you please) it would have been much more popular. Many of the students I spoke to (several hundred, so this is not a small sample size) went but left because they got too cold and didn't bring a jacket, or they were hungry and wanted to go get food (or have a less expensive drink at home), not all of their friends could get tickets, or they lost track of time/got held up and missed their limited window for entry. 

I can't say, in their position, I wouldn't do the same - I would rather go hang out with all of my friends on Ezra where we can come & go as we please than have to show up before 10am and pay $12/drink for the rest of the day with no chance of reprieve from the cold.

They also combined the tent party with a concert (The Chainsmokers) which was just silly.

For someone that stated my numbers for Ezra are pretty much better off not even mentioning, you go onto to say that Oktoberfest is 2-3 week event when it's 9 days. Not even close to two weeks. But whatever.

Since you're an expert with the Ezra event; what are the net benefits to the community? Obviously if I said it's zero and you say that that is incorrect, so enlighten me. I explained how Oktoberfest benefited the community (in terms of donations in excess of $1M plus job creation, and I'll add, a boost to our tourist and exposure to the region). I won't included the $22M that is earned for the event itself and the vendors, the money lines the pockets of the those people. But I would for sure love to have info on Ezra. So far, the only number I could work out was roughly was about $30,000 to the Peel police.

I'm just interesting in a good discussion.

One thing I will add; Ezra is an exclusive event. Ocktoberfest in an inclusive event. That's important to remember.

First of all, I never said I was an expert with the Ezra event.
That is a strawman argument.
Secondly, simply saying it has zero benefits or close to zero is factually incorrect because you have no evidential basis to support that answer. 

I'm just saying, people were whining and crying rivers (mostly older folks) when Toronto rented that big yellow rubber duck in the summer, complaining about why their tax dollars are going to waste for a $120,000 bigger rubber duck that sat in the lake.

Later on, it was to be found in an economic impact study that, due to increased tourism because of the duck:

• the total economic impact of the festival was estimated to be $7.6 million. Non-local attendees and event operations resulted in about $10.6 million in new spending.
  
  
• local residents spent $16.5 million related to the event, including $4.8 million at local restaurants.
  
  
• an estimated $3.6 million in tax revenue was generated by event-related spending.
  
  
• 31 per cent of attendees lived more than 40 km from the festival site, and a record number of visitors from the United States attended.
  

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ru...-1.4353353

So there's that.
Perhaps if city officials of Waterloo region actually made an event out of it, ON Ezra street where students are already going to be, selling St. Paddys food, merchandise, and yes even beer, then they can have a larger economic impact.


But the year that they attempted - and miserably failed - to make an enclosed event in a tent that wasn't even on ezra, showed me how incompetent they were.

Students flocking to Ezra street for St. Paddys has been going on for decades, what makes you think they're going to flock off of Ezra street to a tent where they have to pay for a ticket AND then pay for overpriced beer?
How incompetent do you have to be? It honestly boggles my mind how stupid one has to be.

[jordan2423]

For someone that stated my numbers for Ezra are pretty much better off not even mentioning, you go onto to say that Oktoberfest is 2-3 week event when it's 9 days. Not even close to two weeks. But whatever.

Since you're an expert with the Ezra event; what are the net benefits to the community? Obviously if I said it's zero and you say that that is incorrect, so enlighten me. I explained how Oktoberfest benefited the community (in terms of donations in excess of $1M plus job creation, and I'll add, a boost to our tourist and exposure to the region). I won't included the $22M that is earned for the event itself and the vendors, the money lines the pockets of the those people. But I would for sure love to have info on Ezra. So far, the only number I could work out was roughly was about $30,000 to the Peel police.

I'm just interesting in a good discussion.

One thing I will add; Ezra is an exclusive event. Ocktoberfest in an inclusive event. That's important to remember.

I will agree that saying Ezra has ZERO economic benefits is wrong, but I would also say the benefits would be minimal.

Yes, out of towners booked hotels.  Taxi and Uber drivers likely made bank.  "Some" alcohol would of been purchased at local beer stores/LCBO's, but a fair number would of came in on the school buses too (Those buses likely rented in the municipality in which they reside).  But other than that, I couldn't see much to stimulate our economy.  (I would also doubt restaurants benefited, with the exception of any Taco Bell's or McD's open at 3 am)

Coke

You forgot about Mel's Diner, and local night clubs. Who also increased cover cost, knowing how busy they were going to be by literally doubling he price. If you saw the line at one of the night clubs you would think they were lining up for Michael Jackson as he came back to life.

[jordan2423]

Were none of you students before? Never had any fun?

I'm not inherently opposed to a street party, but seriously? People can have fun without getting hammered in the middle of the street.

No one is disagreeing that people can have fun without getting hammered in the middle of the street, that's not the point.
This tradition on ezra so to speak is a different vibe. It's something young people get attracted to because they know how many people are going to be there, they know they're part of something special.
Just think about it logically as a 18-23 year old.
Should I get drunk and go out with some friends to a bar or licensed establishment, or to a house party, or should i go to Ezra where 20,000+ students from all over Canada, and the United states come to enjoy life and literally be apart of history.

If someone asks me what i did for St Patricks day: Would i rather say "oh I just went out with friends to a bar, or a house party ya I had fun", or would I rather answer with "Oh, I went to Ezra in Waterloo where 25,000 people all came to celebrate on one street from all across canada and the united states."

Think about it. Also think about what makes a better social media post.
I sure as hell want to go to Ezra have fun with everyone and also show everyone on my social media all the people on one street.

Also, just to let you know, I met a bunch of people that came from California. 
How on earth did they hear about Ezra? I have no idea.

To the Region of Waterloo, I suggest you just embrace Ezra, it will not go away, even if you try to entice students to get off Ezra to somewhere else.
It's always going to be Ezra no matter what.

Peace.

[panamaniac]

Why is it so hard to actually close the street, charge a $5 or $8 entry fee, and have security and vendors inside? But the party needs to (and probably will) stay on the street! Were none of you students before? Never had any fun?

Were none of you students before? Never had any fun?

I'm not inherently opposed to a street party, but seriously? People can have fun without getting hammered in the middle of the street.

I agree, but unfortunately St Patrick's Day has degenerated into an excuse for a piss-up for many people.  I'd bet some of the people at that street party aren't even Irish ....

[ijmorlan]

I agree, but unfortunately St Patrick's Day has degenerated into an excuse for a piss-up for many people.  I'd bet some of the people at that street party aren't even Irish ....

Not likely. When was the last time you saw a non-German at Oktoberfest?