General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours

[danbrotherston]

This is like saying that the "free gift you get with your purchase" is a free gift...

No...it's just part of the purchase. If these were allocated to the condo corporation by the developer, it would simply increase the value of the properties. And the developer would be motivated to do this because it would transfer risk to the condo corporation (for example, the risk that they would be unable to lease these units).

"It would simply increase the value of the properties" sounds a lot like the efficient market hypothesis, which I'm really skeptical of in the residential real estate market. People are terrible at accounting for the costs of their purchases. People can't even account for the cost of gas, nevermind the cost of their time, from purchasing homes at the far edges of suburbia. They're not going to account for the value of a commercial unit's rent to offset their condo fees.

Selling the commercial unit(s) as a separate unit would almost certainly have far better returns for the developer than hoping that the promise of a condo fee offset in the future would adequately raise the sale price of all the residential units.

So yes, forgoing the higher return of selling the commercial unit as it's own condo unit, and instead taking the lower return of bundling it in for the residential purchasers, would absolutely be a huge gift to the residential purchasers.

Most condo developers do not want to retain ownership of the units and lease them out as they are not in the real estate leasing business.

I agree, and I never suggested they would. It's almost certainly just another unit of the condo, which was sold to a commercial landlord.

If the condo corporation owned the unit, the projected income of the unit would count as income for the condo corporation. It would directly impact the condo fees charged. This isn't some hidden number, or some hypothetical future number, it's a real (as in realised) savings today.

Selling the units as a separate unit, I have no idea how or even if this works under the legislative framework for condo corporations in Ontario.

[creative]

https://torontorealtyblog.com/blog/comme...ndo-space/

[taylortbb]

If the condo corporation owned the unit, the projected income of the unit would count as income for the condo corporation. It would directly impact the condo fees charged. This isn't some hidden number, or some hypothetical future number, it's a real (as in realised) savings today.

For an already built condo the condo fees affect resale value, but for a developer pre-selling a condo the projected fees do not have a large impact. No one believes the condo fee projections to begin with, and even if they did many pre-build units are sold to people that will never take possession and just do an assignment sale before close. You say "This isn't some hidden number, or some hypothetical future number" but for pre-construction sales (which is all the developer cares about, they don't get paid for resale value) it is exactly that, a hypothetical future number.

In any case, if this building really was setup that way, with the commercial rent offsetting the condo fees, wouldn't the developer have marketed it that way? Surely they'd be shouting it from the rooftops. This whole idea of the developer capturing the value of the commercial unit through increased residential sale prices depends upon people knowing about it, and being willing to pay more upfront for their condo as a result. If no one here heard about it then the developer definitely failed to capture that value, and it's once again a gift to the purchasers.

Selling the units as a separate unit, I have no idea how or even if this works under the legislative framework for condo corporations in Ontario.

It works just fine, lots of other condos in KW are setup this way. For example, Charlie West has 4 commercial units alongside the 305 residential units (and other special units, like the parking unit and the rooftop unit).

[creative]

https://torontorealtyblog.com/blog/comme...ndo-space/

This explains it all. No speculation required!

[taylortbb]

https://torontorealtyblog.com/blog/comme...ndo-space/

This explains it all. No speculation required!

It confirms that commercial spaces as a commercial unit is common, but it doesn't prove anything for certain about this particular building. So, there's still some speculation. But yes, it certainly is good supporting info.

[tomh009]

The last two houses on the left on Margaret as one approaches Victoria from the Centre in the Square (across the street from the new Vive building) sure do look unoccupied and unmaintained. The open GIS database did not reveal any ownership information, but one does wonder whether there will be a development project there as well.

[Lebronj23]

20 stories proposed at 330 mill street

https://app2.kitchener.ca/AppDocs/OpenDa...omEast.pdf

[ZEBuilder]

20 stories proposed at 330 mill street

https://app2.kitchener.ca/AppDocs/OpenDa...omEast.pdf

I made a thread for that already, 

https://www.waterlooregionconnected.com/...pid=115738

[Acitta]

This story by Andrew Chang starts off with a bankrupt Kitchener project.
We’re in a housing crisis. Why are so many builds going bust? | About That

[Momo26]

Question for you architects and arm chair quarter back architects...

Would you prefer a building like this to anything that has popped up in DTK (or Waterloo as well for that matter)?

https://www.blogto.com/real-estate-toron...d-toronto/

[westwardloo]

Question for you architects and arm chair quarter back architects...

Would you prefer a building like this to anything that has popped up in DTK (or Waterloo as well for that matter)?

https://www.blogto.com/real-estate-toron...d-toronto/

100%! they don't all have to look like this, but having a couple uniquely designed buildings sprinkled in to break up the precast/ EIFS mess that is DTK and waterloo would be nice. Honestly they don't even need to look like this, we need developers to spend maybe 5-10% more on design and we can have nice look buildings using the same materials. Unfortunately, our region has a race to the bottom for developers in terms of costs and they already started pretty low. Most nice proposals end up stalled or cancelled in our region, but if it involves black, white and grey precast you know it will be built. 

On a side note, as lovely as this building is, the location beside the highway is going to age that white concrete pretty quick. Love that they have rails instead of glass for the guardrails, would love to see that utilized in the region.

[ac3r]

Question for you architects and arm chair quarter back architects...

Would you prefer a building like this to anything that has popped up in DTK (or Waterloo as well for that matter)?

https://www.blogto.com/real-estate-toron...d-toronto/

Absolutely. It's highly unlikely we'd ever see anything like that here for a long, long time. This region isn't important enough to attract any developer willing to put the money into a nice design.

[CP42]

Progress on UW Innovation Arena, TEK Tower, and slightly Station Park DUO:

[mastermind]

This picture reminds me, does anyone know what's up with that unkept green space behind the UW building parking lot? It's a fairly large space that you really notice when you walk the path from King St toward the new google garage.