Bramm Yards Master Plan

[westwardloo]

I will point out that this is city staff recommending the sale of the site. Although I agree that most of the councils are boomers that still think of kitchener as a small town. The real issue here is that the city's planning department is incapable of thinking large picture and are afraid to take on any risk at all, even it it is the right decision.

[danbrotherston]

I will point out that this is city staff recommending the sale of the site. Although I agree that most of the councils are boomers that still think of kitchener as a small town. The real issue here is that the city's planning department is incapable of thinking large picture and are afraid to take on any risk at all, even it it is the right decision.

This is exactly the problem here. And it's not just governments...it's large organizations of every kind. The kind of paranoia around risk that I experienced at the bank is hilarious. But the biggest problem is that they have no idea how to actually measure risk, at the bank or in the gov...they believe if they do nothing and stand very very still nothing bad can happen. They fail to realize that the world is also in motion, even standing still, you'll eventually get knocked over.

[panamaniac]

Is it paranoia around risk or trying to maximize revenue (i.e. is the full parcel more valuable to developers than the sum of portions of it?)?

[nms]

I guess we could also convince a billionaire to ask the City for massive tax break to build a stadium for a sports team. That seems to be about the only "big picture" risk that cities are willing to make these days.

[panamaniac]

Which comes first, a new stadium or a new arena?

[plam]

This is exactly the problem here. And it's not just governments...it's large organizations of every kind. The kind of paranoia around risk that I experienced at the bank is hilarious. But the biggest problem is that they have no idea how to actually measure risk, at the bank or in the gov...they believe if they do nothing and stand very very still nothing bad can happen. They fail to realize that the world is also in motion, even standing still, you'll eventually get knocked over.

That works for avoiding some wild animals right?

Is it paranoia around risk or trying to maximize revenue (i.e. is the full parcel more valuable to developers than the sum of portions of it?)?

I dunno, I would think that the full parcel is subject to "bulk discounts" and the city would actually get less for that and more for selling in smaller pieces because more developers can bid for the smaller pieces.

I guess we could also convince a billionaire to ask the City for massive tax break to build a stadium for a sports team. That seems to be about the only "big picture" risk that cities are willing to make these days.

Sports stadiums and convention centres. So many new convention centres in NZ, some people can only think of those for increasing tourism to cities or something. Fundamental lack of vision.

[panamaniac]

Kitchener has a long list of "would be nice to haves". New arena, new stadium (two actually - one for baseball), Olympic size swimming and diving facility, And a convention centre. Not sure that any of the should be in Bramm Yards, however.

[westwardloo]

Kitchener has a long list of "would be nice to haves".  New arena, new stadium (two actually - one for baseball), Olympic size swimming and diving facility,  And a convention centre.  Not sure that any of the should be in Bramm Yards, however.

A lot of those listed items could have been provided (Funded) by the Provincial/ federal government under a bid for the Canada Games or better yet the commonwealth games. Look at Edmonton, Hamilton and even London.  Unfortunately the security costs of those events has skyrockets so high that it is a hard sell (Impossible) to justify, even if we get legacy facilities that would provide community benefits for decades. That ship has sailed though. City leaders should have pushed for it in the 90's/00's.  We will be lucky to get a new arena in the next 2 decades.

[panamaniac]

Kitchener has a long list of "would be nice to haves".  New arena, new stadium (two actually - one for baseball), Olympic size swimming and diving facility,  And a convention centre.  Not sure that any of the should be in Bramm Yards, however.

A lot of those listed items could have been provided (Funded) by the Provincial/ federal government under a bid for the Canada Games or better yet the commonwealth games. Look at Edmonton, Hamilton and even London.  Unfortunately the security costs of those events has skyrockets so high that it is a hard sell (Impossible) to justify, even if we get legacy facilities that would provide community benefits for decades. That ship has sailed though. City leaders should have pushed for it in the 90's/00's.  We will be lucky to get a new arena in the next 2 decades.

Yes, I 've long thought that K-W should bid to host the Canada Summer Games.   Maybe in preparation for some day hosting the Commonwealth or Pan-Am Games (hey, if Hamilton can do it ...)

[Vojnik_Vahaj]

Was hoping to see this site be used for a new arena/entertainment venue and then we could have put the new hospital where the Aud currently resides with easy access to the expressway.

Yea that'd actually be a great idea

[nms]

Waterloo Region hosted the Ontario Summer Games in the early 2000s after London hosted the Canada Summer Games. Ontario last hosted the Canada Summer Games in 2022 so it would be a matter of having to wait for the cycle through the other (interested) provinces before it returned to Ontario.

[westwardloo]

Waterloo Region hosted the Ontario Summer Games in the early 2000s after London hosted the Canada Summer Games.  Ontario last hosted the Canada Summer Games in 2022 so it would be a matter of having to wait for the cycle through the other (interested) provinces before it returned to Ontario.

Ontario summer games is not going to get any facilities built. They use existing facilities. London was able to secure funding from all three levels of government to build an olympic sized swimming pool, Which they have used to host various events since. I don't even know if you could get things built for the Canada Games anymore. 

I think The Region should seriously consider a bid for the commonwealth games. I think that is large enough event to secure some large scale investments from upper levels of government.  Maybe 2038 games, use it as a justification to have Stage 2 of the LRT constructed, a Stadium and an olympic size swimming pool. Maybe build a facility or two in cambridge to justify the LRT.  You could even Co-host with Guelph and get a trial run of the GO from Cambridge to Guelph. 

This is obviously a pipe dream though. I feel like the commonwealth games are nearing their expiration date. No one even wants to host 2026 or 2030. It used to be that the cost of hosting would provide infrastructure for residents of the cities use for decades (Commonwealth Stadium). Unfortunately now all the money goes to security which provides no lasting benefit, so governments are starting to realize its not worth hosting anymore.

[KevinL]

Looks like 2026 might get rescued by Glasgow, who hosted in 2014 and can reuse their venues. The only serious 2030 bids were Canadian, first from Hamilton then joint Calgary/Edmonton; both ended up backing out.