Toronto transit projects

[BuildingScout]

Why should something be penalized because it happens to "look cool", BuildingScout? 

I didn't suggest it be penalized. It goes on a different direction: monorails sometimes are misplaced because of the coolness factor. They are used for decorative purposes rather than for mass transit.

Please cite an example of a monorail system which is being extended with conventional subway. 

Mumbai.

Perhaps a better question for you would be: What alternative rail technology could Chongqing have chosen for their Metro?  What other transit technology could handle the steep grades, tight corners, cut through buildings, all while having a minimal visual disruption?  The fact is, no other rail technology other than Monorail could have satisfied these needs.

That's exactly what I was aiming at. The Chongqing monorail is ideal not because is "cool looking", "futuristic" or "one rail instead of two". Is ideal because it suits the topography of Chongqing. Sadly most other monorails were not built because of solid reasons like these, but because they look cool, including the most famous of them all in Disney.

[KevinL]

The upheaval continues: The Scarborough subway extension of Line 2 is being proposed to be scaled back to just one new station - Scarborough Town Centre. No stop at Lawrence, no extension to Sheppard.

In return, an eastern extension of the Eglinton LRT would proceed along Eglinton, Kingston and Morningside, terminating at University of Toronto Scarborough.

It seems in many ways Transit City is back from the dead...

[BuildingScout]

It seems in many ways Transit City is back from the dead...

For the second time.

[Canard]

At least during all this debate, I can still go for rt rides. Toronto's absolute refusal to pick something and go with it has increased the life of the rt. To appreciate how ridiculous this is, Waterloo Region voted for rapid transit, carried out an EA, selected a builder, will have built, tested and opened a full 20 km transit line before Toronto even decided what to do.

[Markster]

In return, an eastern extension of the Eglinton LRT would proceed along Eglinton, Kingston and Morningside, terminating at University of Toronto Scarborough.

The Morningside LRT is a great idea. It's logical, and connects to all-day GO Trains at Eglinton GO, as well as VIA at Guildwood. I'm pretty happy to see it back in corporeal form.

Another interesting development is that Sheppard East has been reverted to some nebulous "Rapid transit". It's the best news Sheppard Subway supporters have seen in years.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here's the latest Scarboro transit plan. <a href="https://t.co/qQfq3HGLpd">pic.twitter.com/qQfq3HGLpd</a></p>&mdash; Tess Kalinowski (@TessKalinowski) <a href="https://twitter.com/TessKalinowski/status/689890493409300484">January 20, 2016</a></blockquote>

[Canard]

The UP Express is free to ride this weekend, so we went for a ride today.

   

[Canard]

Some great shots on Jason Paris' Flickr account of the interior of the new Leslie Barns, which will house the TTC's Bombardier FLEXITY Outlook LFLRV fleet:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jasonparis/

[JoeKW]

I don't understand the UP Express pricing model. It's priced for business travellers and the wealthy but those people are more likely to take cabs or private cars since it's quicker and carrying your bags any distance is not fun.

[clasher]

I thought it was priced so high as to dissuade people from using it as transit. The amenities they add seem to try and make it up as a luxury service or something but I can't see someone who lives or works downtown and is getting their trip expensed using the train instead of a limo or taxi, at least with the taxi it's door-to-door and there isn't any time lost making your way to the train station. The UPX seems to be losing ridership
and the fact that the busiest weekend was when they had free fares is kind of telling. The only business advantage I can see is for a single traveller that lives right near a station and is trying to get to the airport during rush hour. I guess one could pull out a laptop and work for half an hour, but email and stuff on a mobile with data is possible from a limo or cab too. It seems they really missed the market for this service and that a serious adjustment in price should be considered. The UPX was touted as being able to break even at some point in the future but given the current numbers I don't understand how that'll happen. It's also taking up space on a crowded rail corridor so it seems kind of wasteful in that sense.

[tomh009]

I don't understand the UP Express pricing model.  It's priced for business travellers and the wealthy but those people are more likely to take cabs or private cars since it's quicker and carrying your bags any distance is not fun.

As a frequent business traveler, a train is my #1 choice for getting to a city from its airport.  Roomy, relaxed and unaffected by traffic.  Even if my company might pay for a taxi.

NB: Most business travelers travel light, very frequently with carry-on luggage only, so the bags are less of an issue.

[MacBerry]

I thought it was priced so high as to dissuade people from using it as transit. The amenities they add seem to try and make it up as a luxury service or something but I can't see someone who lives or works downtown and is getting their trip expensed using the train instead of a limo or taxi, at least with the taxi it's door-to-door and there isn't any time lost making your way to the train station. The UPX seems to be losing ridership
and the fact that the busiest weekend was when they had free fares is kind of telling. The only business advantage I can see is for a single traveller that lives right near a station and is trying to get to the airport during rush hour. I guess one could pull out a laptop and work for half an hour, but email and stuff on a mobile with data is possible from a limo or cab too. It seems they really missed the market for this service and that a serious adjustment in price should be considered. The UPX was touted as being able to break even at some point in the future but given the current numbers I don't understand how that'll happen. It's also taking up space on a crowded rail corridor so it seems kind of wasteful in that sense.

I think they have missed many huge marketing opportunities. I am not a marketing person but you have to build this type of relationship not just open a station.

My unwritten rule of marketing: Market your product to your target market ... 

This was forgotten or never considered by the less than business savvy UPX management team. They are all responsible for this fiasco.

If UPX bought database information to target less frequent users than every week business flyers many might be persuaded to try a free UPX trip when it came with your ticket. Family rates and other incentives are need to cause people to travel on this train. Additionally pinpoint Aeroplan users within 3-5 kilometers of a station and send them a free one way ticket and a transit token (yes I know tokens aren't used). Aeroplan used to send me free upgrade tickets on short haul until they decided to make a profit. 

Different age group marketing techniques around universities/colleges in southern Ontario before "reading break" aka going south trips are marketed in October/November and target these young people. 

I get 7-10 emails a week from Shoppers Drugs all trying to raise their revenue  and targeted to what I purchased and claimed Optimum points. Most frequent travelers use high end VISA or AMEX cards and freebies could be given by these companies when a miles collector books a trip for their son, daughter wife or for their own trip. Given the ridership these freebies are not lost revenue as there is no forgone revenue with the current pricing model.

As noted by many the price point each way should at start shouild have been no higher than $10 for first 18 months and then $12.50 for next year and so on.

[Viewfromthe42]

I don't understand the UP Express pricing model.  It's priced for business travellers and the wealthy but those people are more likely to take cabs or private cars since it's quicker and carrying your bags any distance is not fun.

As a frequent business traveler, a train is my #1 choice for getting to a city from its airport.  Roomy, relaxed and unaffected by traffic.  Even if my company might pay for a taxi.

NB: Most business travelers travel light, very frequently with carry-on luggage only, so the bags are less of an issue.

Two very different customers. Those who do not live in Toronto and are staying at hotels/visiting businesses near Union, and those who live in Toronto. If you live in Toronto, unless you live near Union, UPX will never be the most convenient way to get to the airport, because you must first get to Union. If you don't need to pay the cost, because employer covers it, I'd think you'd almost always choose a taxi. But if you're the businessperson from outside Toronto, what are the odds that you'll see Presto vs cash fare and shake your head long enough to choose a taxi instead?

[tomh009]

As a frequent business traveler, a train is my #1 choice for getting to a city from its airport.  Roomy, relaxed and unaffected by traffic.  Even if my company might pay for a taxi.

NB: Most business travelers travel light, very frequently with carry-on luggage only, so the bags are less of an issue.

Two very different customers. Those who do not live in Toronto and are staying at hotels/visiting businesses near Union, and those who live in Toronto. If you live in Toronto, unless you live near Union, UPX will never be the most convenient way to get to the airport, because you must first get to Union. If you don't need to pay the cost, because employer covers it, I'd think you'd almost always choose a taxi. But if you're the businessperson from outside Toronto, what are the odds that you'll see Presto vs cash fare and shake your head long enough to choose a taxi instead?

My point was that I don't do that.  And I have many colleagues who would similarly choose a train over taxi (not just cost but also traffic).

Cash fares are always more expensive, everywhere.  It's why I have an Oyster card for London and a Suica for Tokyo.  But even at today's fares (which are too high, I do agree with that) the cash fare is still substantially less than a taxi fare to downtown.  Taxifarefinder.com estimates the taxi fare at about $70, depending on traffic.

I would recommend going down to $20 cash one-way, $35 cash return, or $15 Presto one-way.  I think that would substantially increase ridership -- and increase revenues in spite of the lower fares.

[plam]

Two very different customers. Those who do not live in Toronto and are staying at hotels/visiting businesses near Union, and those who live in Toronto. If you live in Toronto, unless you live near Union, UPX will never be the most convenient way to get to the airport, because you must first get to Union. If you don't need to pay the cost, because employer covers it, I'd think you'd almost always choose a taxi. But if you're the businessperson from outside Toronto, what are the odds that you'll see Presto vs cash fare and shake your head long enough to choose a taxi instead?

My point was that I don't do that.  And I have many colleagues who would similarly choose a train over taxi (not just cost but also traffic).

Cash fares are always more expensive, everywhere.  It's why I have an Oyster card for London and a Suica for Tokyo.  But even at today's fares (which are too high, I do agree with that) the cash fare is still substantially less than a taxi fare to downtown.  Taxifarefinder.com estimates the taxi fare at about $70, depending on traffic.

I would recommend going down to $20 cash one-way, $35 cash return, or $15 Presto one-way.  I think that would substantially increase ridership -- and increase revenues in spite of the lower fares.

Totally agree. Even when expensed, taxis are not always the best solution. Trains can be better because of predictability.

I do know someone in Toronto who lives in Roncesvalles near Weston and UPX actually works well for him.

[KevinL]

This image has been making the rounds:



It's all the current proposals, plus the DRL, plus pretty much the rest of Transit City. I believe it was made by Metrolinx.