Bramm Yards Master Plan

[danbrotherston]

I'll be honest, I'm mixed here.

I'm no capitalist to be sure...I'd rather that the land be used for the benefit of the public, and I really think the value of the land to the public is greater than the sale price of the land.

So idealistically some kind of government or (non-corrupt) non-profit/co-op could/should own it and manage it for the benefit of the people.

But I also know our government is allergic to owning property, and it's one of these things where conservatives would have no qualms about selling it off and using the one time windfall to fund some kind of awful bad projects that conservatives love...you know, oil pipeline through town, highway into downtown...something awful.

Of course, I'm being mean intentionally here, but I am also being honest: I really do see the idea of government owning property as a risk that conservatives can exploit to their benefit. We'd need some kind of mandate or governmental norm that the government should own and manage property for it to be safe...that or some other legal mechanism to prevent it's later privatization.

[ac3r]

Selling the land is the last thing I want to see them do.

We just need to wait and see what they propose for this plan. It's still in the early stages after all.

[ijmorlan]

But I also know our government is allergic to owning property, and it's one of these things where conservatives would have no qualms about selling it off and using the one time windfall to fund some kind of awful bad projects that conservatives love...you know, oil pipeline through town, highway into downtown...something awful.

I think it can help somewhat to have the land owned by a government-owned corporation. So the government can’t simply sell it; they would have to change the operation or management of the corporation. Not perfect of course but it puts an organization whose purpose, when established, is to maintain and operate the land in accordance with the stated purpose. Changing that gives an opportunity for opposition to coalesce, including at least potentially from within the organization itself.

For example, the outrage that would ensue if they tried to sell off the Laurel Creek Conservation Area would be huge and there would be multiple legal steps required to accomplish it if I understand correctly. Much harder than just advising some friends which Greenbelt properties to buy a few months ahead of time.

But yes, Conservative governments are terrible businesspeople. I’m looking at you, 407!

[Acitta]

Bramm Yards Open House
Wednesday, October 11, 2023 4:00 pm - 7:00 pm
Victoria Park Pavilion (80 Schneider Avenue)
We are creating a Master Plan that will guide future development at the Bramm Yards site (55 Bramm Street and 130 Park Street). The City’s goal is to transform this parking lot into an urban business park to accommodate hundreds of future jobs.

Drop-in anytime during our open house on Oct. 21, 2023 to learn more about the project and share your feedback.

[danbrotherston]

Bramm Yards Open House
Wednesday, October 11, 2023 4:00 pm - 7:00 pm
Victoria Park Pavilion (80 Schneider Avenue)
We are creating a Master Plan that will guide future development at the Bramm Yards site (55 Bramm Street and 130 Park Street). The City’s goal is to transform this parking lot into an urban business park to accommodate hundreds of future jobs.

Drop-in anytime during our open house on Oct. 21, 2023 to learn more about the project and share your feedback.

Can the feedback be "Don't build a business park"?

I'm guessing not.

[Acitta]

Bramm Yards Open House
Wednesday, October 11, 2023 4:00 pm - 7:00 pm
Victoria Park Pavilion (80 Schneider Avenue)
We are creating a Master Plan that will guide future development at the Bramm Yards site (55 Bramm Street and 130 Park Street). The City’s goal is to transform this parking lot into an urban business park to accommodate hundreds of future jobs.

Drop-in anytime during our open house on Oct. 21, 2023 to learn more about the project and share your feedback.

Can the feedback be "Don't build a business park"?

I'm guessing not.

It is still early in the plan, so give your feedback, though I presume that the land is not zoned for residential.

[panamaniac]

The land was acquired specifically for employment purposes, no?

[taylortbb]

The land was acquired specifically for employment purposes, no?

I think it's owned because the city used to have a maintenance yard there. So it wasn't acquired for any purpose that's still relevant.

[ac3r]

The line of thinking that this should be more residential focused or handed off to developers is suuuuuccchhhh an incorrect way to look at this. It's clear they want to keep the space for business/commercial, not parcel it off and sell it off to condo developers or anything like that. That would be utterly foolish from a planning perspective. Long term, King/Victoria is intended to be the main intersection of...well...the entire region but also Kitchener. We've already got Google, Dillon Consulting, Communitech, University of Waterloo, McMaster University, a future new train station and a number of incredibly high density skyscraper projects either under construction or approved for construction around this area. They're expecting this intersection to have as much importance and centrality as Bay/Front/York/Yonge area is for Toronto.

Short-medium term? As in within our lives? I think most of Bramm Yards would be medium density office and retail space. Long term? Perhaps some office towers and skyscrapers would spring up there that could offer much more office space, commercial and perhaps hotel space. Either way, this intersection is going to be seen as one of (if not the) main intersection of the city and region as a whole due to the ongoing development, the new train station and Highway 7/Victoria Street acting as a good (if not a bit awkward) way for vehicular traffic from suburban or intracity regions to funnel into the core of the region. Hence the desire to develop a master plan and retain ownership or at least direct control over what is developed here. The city sure isn't picturing more VanMar and Vive projects, hipster bars shilling IPAs on these 8 acres and Victoria Street becoming a giant bike lane, they're picturing it being an incredibly strong economic centre for business and residence. It's really the heart of the area and it always has been, to the point even our brain rotted council members can see. Well, except for Little Debbie I guess.

[Lebronj23]

Report calls for selling Kitchener’s Bramm Yards for development

https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-...84ffd.html

[westwardloo]

Report calls for selling Kitchener’s Bramm Yards for development

https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-...84ffd.html

I feel like this would be a huge mistake. The City's planners are demonstrating that they have Zero Vision for what the site could become. I think the best thing the city could do is develop the street network, install all the service, establish green space and rezone the land. Then sell off each lot to different developers. Selling this site wholesale to one developer is only going to ensure that the site takes 3+ decades to be fully built and we will end up with a bunch of buildings that look the exact same like Barrel Yards. Selling individual lots will also fetch a higher price and more then likely result in the site being developed sooner rather then later, since there will be actual competition between developers to get their buildings to market. They could also approach UW to see if they are interested in expanding their DTK footprint. They want a mix of institutional/ office/ retail and housing, but there are not many developers in this region that build all of those things. Most of our Developers are only building housing.

[ac3r]

I agree. They should retain it and get it ready for development, but then divide it up and let different developers contribute.

The cities and region sure make awful choices.

[danbrotherston]

Report calls for selling Kitchener’s Bramm Yards for development

https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-...84ffd.html

I feel like this would be a huge mistake. The City's planners are demonstrating that they have Zero Vision for what the site could become. I think the best thing the city could do is develop the street network, install all the service, establish green space and rezone the land. Then sell off each lot to different developers. Selling this site wholesale to one developer is only going to ensure that the site takes 3+ decades to be fully built and we will end up with a bunch of buildings that look the exact same like Barrel Yards. Selling individual lots will also fetch a higher price and more then likely result in the site being developed sooner rather then later, since there will be actual competition between developers to get their buildings to market. They could also approach UW to see if they are interested in expanding their DTK footprint. They want a mix of institutional/ office/ retail and housing, but there are not many developers in this region that build all of those things. Most of our Developers are only building housing.

Welcome to the neoconservative value of "the government is not your friend"...

Of course, I got flack when last accused Kitchener council (well the mayor specifically) of being neoconservative, but honestly this is exactly the kind of thing neocons do. They don't want government to do things...partly because they believe it, but also because the less risk there is for them to be blamed for something going wrong.

[cherrypark]

Really disappointing if this leads to a multi-year process just to sell it off and wait another decade for an Auburn or similar to re-develop it. Agreed with other posters that a combined project subdividing the lands while creating new parkland and amenities right downtown would be much better. We already know we can't leave it up to developers to get the likes of a high quality pedestrianized streetscape or decent public access parkland because it requires them to give up on too much land value return leaving space undeveloped.

The hill here is also a space that could have made for a really interesting park and stage/bandshell type configuration as a bit of green space in the middle of all the new high density. Mission Dolores Park in SF comes to mind.

[ac3r]

Welcome to the neoconservative value of "the government is not your friend"...

Of course, I got flack when last accused Kitchener council (well the mayor specifically) of being neoconservative, but honestly this is exactly the kind of thing neocons do. They don't want government to do things...partly because they believe it, but also because the less risk there is for them to be blamed for something going wrong.

You get flak from people online because you usually have zero idea what you're talking about. Nobody on the City of Kitchener council - nor the mayor - is neoconservative lol it's such a silly claim to make. You may want to choose to learn what words mean before you try to use them.

This is just our government being disorganized, worsened by the fact they're almost all out of touch boomers that grew up in this region and are incapable of understanding the extremely rapid changes taking place. They're used to the "old" Kitchener.