The COVID-19 pandemic

[Bjays93]

That's how it should work in theory yes, but to my point, we actually haven't used mRNA vaccines on a wide scale like this, there were hardly significant mRNA trials of any type prior to covid. So while this is how it should and likely will work, truthfully we can't know 100%. It's absolutely possible that there could be issues well down the road that we're unaware of. 

Once again, I'm not saying we shouldnt take the vaccine, nor am I even suggesting that unknown risks are inherently bad. Its simply a reality and again my issue is immediately dismissing people who have concerns. Educating to address vaccine hesitancy is by far the best route to go that is the only point I am trying to make. Having concerns is valid, obviously there's nothing you can do to reach trump level conspiracy theorists, but you dont have to be a right wing nut to have concerns and theres nothing wrong with having them. Using science and facts and presenting cost benefit analysis is the best way to go about it. The vaccines are not infallible, and the risks are not nonexistent, to say otherwise is disingenuous and doesnt help convince anyone. To acknowledge that there are potential risks and things we dont know, but present a well reasoned argument as to why those risks are far less than the risks of getting covid, that is the best way to approach the issue. 

Alienating people immediately is in no way useful, and just assuming because of one comment or right leaning tendency that one is a trumpian conspiracy theorist is equally useless (I'm not saying you are doing that but in general I see no room for being a moderate these days and that's not conducive to a healthy dialogue and debate based environment)

Edit: accidentally said the risks of the vaccine vastly outweigh the risks of covid when I meant to say the opposite (I've fixed it now)

We absolutely do know that the vaccine breaks down in the body. This is well understood. While we don't understand everything about the immune system, vaccines in general are well studied as well. The mRNA vaccine is novel, but the mechanisms it operates on are not, the mRNA programs cells to create the spike protein, same as a viral vector vaccine does, which are not novel. I believe there are fewer unknowns than you think.

I agree that educating people on the process by which we know that the vaccine is safe is a good idea.  But I don't believe focusing on the risks is not a good education strategy. All it will do is sew further doubts.

And I don't think anyone here is saying that anyone who has any hesitancy about the vaccine is a trumpian conspiracy theorist, I do think there is plenty of room to be moderate, but not in every space. For example there is no room for moderates in an angry mob waving anti-vaxxer signs. In some places on social media, like here, it seems to be fine, in other places like FB comments on a CTV article...forget it. I certainly agree there is significant toxicity to a lot of public discourse, but that's a much bigger issue.

It is but it's also incredibly relevant and has permeated through every aspect of covid. It is to a point where it is almost impossible to determine truth from lies. This was inevitable but covid has been a catalyst for mainstream attention to so much of this misinformation. 

Probably not for this thread but that is where my knowledge excels and is also probably why I'm a pessimist and have no hope for human beings

[ijmorlan]

I respect that that is your opinion, but it is not absolute. I and many people differ from your opinion.  That doesn't make you right, it doesn't make me right... but when you say Absolutely then I know there is no discussion to be had.  I am not scared of this.  If you are scared, stay at home

Well, I said a lot of things. But if you think the pandemic isn’t dangerous, then you are wrong, and you are correct that there is no discussion to be had. Similarly, if you think the vaccine is dangerous, then you are wrong, and you are correct that there is no discussion to be had.

The Earth is an oblate spheroid orbiting another (very slightly) oblate spheroid, Smallpox was eliminated by a vaccine and not by prayer, Covid is dangerous, and the vaccines are safe. Anybody who disagrees with me about any of these points is simply incorrect as a matter of fact. Not really “me” of course, just with the established scientific consensus.

Rights aren’t a matter of fact, but there are frameworks that have been developed for discussing them, and the idea that those of us who have protected ourselves against something dangerous by doing something safe should stay home is abhorrent. Instead, those of us who refuse to protect themselves against something dangerous because they think the protection is dangerous can stay home. I have the right not to be endangered by somebody who refuses to take the vaccine.

[tomh009]

The province is sending in two self-contained mobile teams (with trailers and tents) to set up pop-up vaccination clinics in the region.
https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-...hoods.html

"It’s not yet determined where mobile teams will set up pop-up clinics. The public health unit previously identified up to six priority neighbourhoods in Kitchener, Cambridge and Waterloo where cases have been higher.

They include neighbourhoods around the N2C postal code in central Kitchener, identified as a virus hot spot by the province."

The teams are arriving next week and are expected to stay for two weeks.

[creative]

The Waterloo Region Vaccine Task Force is hosting school vaccine clinics across Waterloo Region between June 22 – 26, 2021 for youth and their families. These clinics do not take walk-ins, an appointment is needed.
https://www.wrdsb.ca/blog/2021/06/17/sch...oo-region/

[jeffster]

The Waterloo Region Vaccine Task Force is hosting school vaccine clinics across Waterloo Region between June 22 – 26, 2021 for youth and their families. These clinics do not take walk-ins, an appointment is needed.
https://www.wrdsb.ca/blog/2021/06/17/sch...oo-region/

They need to allow walk-ins. Not everyone has computer access.

In other news:

Preliminary numbers for Ontario, our top 3:

1) Waterloo Region 85
2 and 3) Toronto and Peel at 50.

We're getting worse quickly -- expect announcement today regarding lockdown. I think it's almost a given at this point.

[jeffster]

"It’s not yet determined where mobile teams will set up pop-up clinics. The public health unit previously identified up to six priority neighbourhoods in Kitchener, Cambridge and Waterloo where cases have been higher.

They need to figure out things a little more quickly. They should have had pop-up clinics in mind BEFORE they become available.

[creative]

You can also book an appointment by calling the YMCA settlement services at 226-339-4964.

[ac3r]

They need to allow walk-ins. Not everyone has computer access.

They should, though I believe it is possible to phone up Waterloo Region Public Health and get help booking an appointment that way. They have a phone number for both TTY and voice calls on the pre-registration page.

[jeffster]

Current 7-day Covid-19 per 100K

• Region of Waterloo Public Health and Emergency Services 79.1
• North Bay Parry Sound District Health Unit 27.7
• Peel Public Health 26.9
• Brant County Health Unit 21.9
• Niagara Region Public Health 21.6
• City of Hamilton Public Health Services 20.4
• Peterborough Public Health 19.6
• Huron Perth Public Health 19.3
• Durham Region Health Department 18.7
• Toronto Public Health 17.0

• TOTAL ONTARIO 19.3

The province breaks the 20 case count, 7-day rolling, per 100k.

Waterloo Region continues to trend upwards, and is now more than 4x higher than the provincial average.

[jeffster]

They need to allow walk-ins. Not everyone has computer access.

They should, though I believe it is possible to phone up Waterloo Region Public Health and get help booking an appointment that way. They have a phone number for both TTY and voice calls on the pre-registration page.

The problem is, to find that information you need the Internet. I have no idea what the number is. And you need a phone, many with low income don't even have that.

Our PHU health unit has done a terrible job. And why they never bothered with the homeless is beyond my grasp. Can't reiterate enough -- those people don't have internet, don't have phones, and many lack ID. Same applies to newer immigrants and lower income families.

They could have flyer out the next business day to every mailbox to inform people. But our task force doesn't seem motivated. Put someone else in the top that knows what they're doing and can provide good leadership. I am also question Dr. Wang as she supports this invalid idea that it's the general public causing spread (it's been WRPS, LTC, and homeless shelters).

[ac3r]

They could have flyer out the next business day to every mailbox to inform people.

This would have been good to do. I remember they mailed out flyers about the vaccine, stating things like it doesn't change your DNA...as if that even needed to be said. Sadly, they never mailed anything out regarding how you can get one.

[tomh009]

Our PHU health unit has done a terrible job. And why they never bothered with the homeless is beyond my grasp. Can't reiterate enough -- those people don't have internet, don't have phones, and many lack ID. Same applies to newer immigrants and lower income families.

I've been avoiding getting into pointless arguments with jeffster because all he says is that the region is lazy, stupid and incompetent, with never any facts to back it up. No point arguing with people who don't listen.

However, the statement above is patently false. Sanguen Health Centre was running mobile clinics specifically for these people as early as late March. I have seen the vans myself, even.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener...-1.5958975

[jeffster]

They could have flyer out the next business day to every mailbox to inform people.

This would have been good to do. I remember they mailed out flyers about the vaccine, stating things like it doesn't change your DNA...as if that even needed to be said. Sadly, they never mailed anything out regarding how you can get one.

I was sure I got that flyer in my utility bill, but perhaps I didn't. That said, it did have information on the *backside* on how to get your shot. I never noticed it until I tossed the flyer tho. At the same time, that information on the back was useless for the majority of people because we didn't "qualify". It may have been a better idea to send out flyers every 3 weeks or so as things change. If we say that cost per flyer is 10¢ per sheet (including delivery -- might be free if the Feds pay for it (through CPC)). So 10¢ x 5x (minimum number of times that flyers are sent to households) x 220,000 (roughly the number of households), the cost is $110,000. Seems like a small price to pay to get us back to normal, and perhaps rather than being 4x the provincial average, we'll be 1/2 -- though it would still mean vaccinating WRPS staff, workers in LTC's and homeless people.

[jeffster]

Our PHU health unit has done a terrible job. And why they never bothered with the homeless is beyond my grasp. Can't reiterate enough -- those people don't have internet, don't have phones, and many lack ID. Same applies to newer immigrants and lower income families.

I've been avoiding getting into pointless arguments with jeffster because all he says is that the region is lazy, stupid and incompetent, with never any facts to back it up. No point arguing with people who don't listen.

However, the statement above is patently false. Sanguen Health Centre was running mobile clinics specifically for these people as early as late March. I have seen the vans myself, even.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener...-1.5958975

Tom: Where are our covid numbers coming from? OR do you ignore those facts? It's great that Telus funded this drive, but they can't get to everyone. That's regional staff visiting homeless shelters on a regular bases. We have a problem in this region, and we're not doing good. Why are we outliers on the province? Those are the facts -- 4x worse than the provincial average. What is this region doing so different than other PHU's that make us losers? What do you know that we don't? Show me evidence that this region is doing a great job. Show me that our PHU is correct that it's the general publics fault. Give me evidence that the region has done all it can with getting information to the public.

Oddly that article points out what a cellular carrier is doing for the region. Bravo to them. (and oddly, the same Telus that blocked RoW text messages to Telus customers regarding their shot - who we blame there, no idea)

Perhaps point out alternate reasons why we are bad as we are. I would like to know.

[taylortbb]

Perhaps point out alternate reasons why we are bad as we are. I would like to know.

We're outliers in the number of delta cases, that's really the big difference. The delta variant is significant more transmissible, that's why it caused such a huge crisis in India. Waterloo is probably the biggest delta outbreak in Canada, and likely in North America. The only thing that could have prevented this is stricter border controls, or more vaccines sooner. Neither of those is within the control of local public health.