Charles St GRT terminal redevelopment

[ijmorlan]

I think that putting condos here would be a giant missed opportunity.  Where else will the city get an opportunity to do a major city building exercise?  There are lots of other parking lots or lands available for condo towers - let the private sector get to work on that!

I vote for the expansion of Victoria Park!  When was the last time you heard someone say Central Park was too big?  It would be an amazing green anchor to the center of the city and allow for continued intensification!

Expanded park would be truly great! It would reach to just one block from King, and the pedestrianized Gaukel would make that connection feel natural and convenient.

If the choice is between closing Jubilee and closing Joseph, I think I’d be inclined to keep Joseph open and close Jubilee. But on the other hand, it’s probably fine to close both. Whether it’s politically feasible is another question…

[cherrypark]

I think that putting condos here would be a giant missed opportunity.  Where else will the city get an opportunity to do a major city building exercise?  There are lots of other parking lots or lands available for condo towers - let the private sector get to work on that!

I vote for the expansion of Victoria Park!  When was the last time you heard someone say Central Park was too big?  It would be an amazing green anchor to the center of the city and allow for continued intensification!

Expanded park would be truly great! It would reach to just one block from King, and the pedestrianized Gaukel would make that connection feel natural and convenient.

If the choice is between closing Jubilee and closing Joseph, I think I’d be inclined to keep Joseph open and close Jubilee. But on the other hand, it’s probably fine to close both. Whether it’s politically feasible is another question…

Considering the fury generated by one-way Joesph and the proposal to cul-de-sac Water, I would think that is going to be tough sell with the VPNA making noise about it. Would be happy to be wrong, though. In the least they could further traffic calm them and make both not through streets to keep it the flow more local only.

[danbrotherston]

Expanded park would be truly great! It would reach to just one block from King, and the pedestrianized Gaukel would make that connection feel natural and convenient.

If the choice is between closing Jubilee and closing Joseph, I think I’d be inclined to keep Joseph open and close Jubilee. But on the other hand, it’s probably fine to close both. Whether it’s politically feasible is another question…

Considering the fury generated by one-way Joesph and the proposal to cul-de-sac Water, I would think that is going to be tough sell with the VPNA making noise about it. Would be happy to be wrong, though. In the least they could further traffic calm them and make both not through streets to keep it the flow more local only.

Oh, I have zero illusions about anti-change NIMBY folks being on board with any change. That much is obvious. In fact, I believe that NIMBYs will oppose EVERY use of the transit terminal with the possible (but not guaranteed) exception of a park.

But we already know our city can't have nice things if those people are allowed to control development.

[ac3r]

For all the people who are suggesting a park expansion, I'd urge you to contact both the City of Kitchener (who owns the park, I believe) and the Region of Waterloo (who own this property). Let them know you'd like them to consider this idea so the planners have something to go on, since they for sure don't lurk WRC.

I think a park expansion is the best idea yet. My vision for this has a public square (partially paved, partially landscaped) as well as some facilities for the public - public art, washrooms, information centre and perhaps a little Indigenous centre etc. It could become a great focal point for the city: situated between City Hall - which represents our city - and Victoria Park which is our main public park. If a good landscape architect was brought in, this could be a wonderful place. We'll only have one single chance to redevelop this and having it become a space that can be enjoyed by all and last us the next century or more is not an opportunity we should lose.

[nms]

Here are two, never-going-to-happen, scenarios that everyone seems to avoid, but that would solve two or three other downtown "problems":

1. Go the Madison Square Gardens route and build a new arena on top of the proposed intercity station at King & Victoria. The land parcel is a bit small, but the dreamers have to dream right?

2. Put the new facility where the King Centre is and merge the property with 44 Gaukel. You could even stack your extra ice pads towards King St. With two nods to the Toronto Maple Leafs, the mid-Century façade of 44 Gaukel could be incorporated into the arena wall, while the upper floor ice pads would be a nod to Maple Leaf Gardens where Loblaws put retail space on the lower floors and the ice rink went up top. (downtown grocer: third problem solved). Heck, go for broke, and figure out how to also include provisions for the much anticipated, also not going to happen, conference centre.

Oh, and turn the bus terminal land into an extension of Victoria Park.  If underground parking is a must, create something like Toronto's Roundhouse Park.

*mic drop*

PS As to why we used to get big acts here, and now we don't, a new documentary, "Rock This Town", explores how bands like Chicago, the Supremes, Led Zepplin, Supertramp, KISS, Rush and Elton John arrived here in the 1960s and 1970s. [CBC Interview here] [Record article about Joe Recchia here]. Fun Fact: Elton John played five nights at the Bombshelter Pub in Waterloo in August 1970 en route to his big break at the Troubadour in the United States.

[razzie13]

Park expansion would be amazing if done right! One big example comes to mind - Millennium Park in Chicago is an amazing urban park that has plenty of ideas that could be borrowed/adapted. Nobody is going to hate a public place with large fountains or a performance stage. I'd say maybe public art like the bean too but we would likely end up with another bell or aporia knowing how this town works. Not knocking either, but you know what I mean.

[panamaniac]

Park expansion would be amazing if done right! One big example comes to mind - Millennium Park in Chicago is an amazing urban park that has plenty of ideas that could be borrowed/adapted. Nobody is going to hate a public place with large fountains or a performance stage. I'd say maybe public art like the bean too but we would likely end up with another bell or aporia knowing how this town works. Not knocking either, but you know what I mean.

Ya gets what ya pays for.

[adjlar]

I'll admit, I was initially intrigued by the idea of building a new arena on this parcel but with the way development is trending towards The Aud, this parcel would be better fit as a public square/park. A large fountain similar to the one in Gore Park in Hamilton or even Berczy Park in Toronto would be a nice addition.

[cherrypark]

For all the people who are suggesting a park expansion, I'd urge you to contact both the City of Kitchener (who owns the park, I believe) and the Region of Waterloo (who own this property). Let them know you'd like them to consider this idea so the planners have something to go on, since they for sure don't lurk WRC.

I think a park expansion is the best idea yet. My vision for this has a public square (partially paved, partially landscaped) as well as some facilities for the public - public art, washrooms, information centre and perhaps a little Indigenous centre etc. It could become a great focal point for the city: situated between City Hall - which represents our city - and Victoria Park which is our main public park. If a good landscape architect was brought in, this could be a wonderful place. We'll only have one single chance to redevelop this and having it become a space that can be enjoyed by all and last us the next century or more is not an opportunity we should lose.

Hell yes. Let's get a Claude Cormier tier designer in the mix and make something special with Gaukel as the link.

I also like the ideas of using the lot behind 44 Gaukel as part of the development. I'm sure the Region will be licking its chops at the proceeds of even a partial land sale (gotta pay down that RIM Park debt somehow!), but maybe some cost sharing between the region and the city selling that other parcel could balance the cost of reusing the station land for something non-development revenue generating.

[tomh009]

I also like the ideas of using the lot behind 44 Gaukel as part of the development. I'm sure the Region will be licking its chops at the proceeds of even a partial land sale (gotta pay down that RIM Park debt somehow!), but maybe some cost sharing between the region and the city selling that other parcel could balance the cost of reusing the station land for something non-development revenue generating.

RIM Park is City of Waterloo, not the region.

[Lens]

I think everyone is missing the OBVIOUS place to put a new downtown arena (if we must have one) and that would be the Bramm Street Yards: https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.4507466,-...!1e3?hl=en

Tons of space to build an arena, community space, mixed uses including retail, homes, and office and better connectivity to transit (Central Station, GO, Victoria and Park Streets). The venue could host conventions for the Downtown business community and be used by minor hockey and other sports on off days.

Give people a reason visit this part of the city.

[ac3r]

It would be a good place, but some developers are already eyeing this area for other projects.

[panamaniac]

It would be a good place, but some developers are already eyeing this area for other projects.

Not more condos, I hope.

[cherrypark]

I also like the ideas of using the lot behind 44 Gaukel as part of the development. I'm sure the Region will be licking its chops at the proceeds of even a partial land sale (gotta pay down that RIM Park debt somehow!), but maybe some cost sharing between the region and the city selling that other parcel could balance the cost of reusing the station land for something non-development revenue generating.

RIM Park is City of Waterloo, not the region.

Ah you know what - you're right. Thanks for the correction.

[nms]

Only 9 years to go until the City of Waterloo is free from those debt repayments. Imagine what they might have done with ~$4.8 million extra in the City coffers each year. Maybe we'll find out in 2031. But I digress. You may now return to your regularly scheduled programming.