Charles St GRT terminal redevelopment

[danbrotherston]

If there was a business case for a convention centre surely there would be some private businesses looking to build a place. I'm also skeptical that a downtown rink would do much if people are scared to come downtown and walk around, they're just going to drive to the game, park, and go into the arena to eat/drink.

Most Canadian convention centres are mostly/entirely public projects, are they not?  As for the rink, you seem to assume considerable on-site parking, which would not be the case.

I think the assumption that there would be limited on-site parking is entirely unjustified. I know there are some forces who want limited parking. But those forces that want unlimited free parking are enormously powerful. It's foolish to believe they wouldn't win. I mean, just look at this forum, which is in theory entirely progressive, but contains at least one person arguing for a 4-5 storey underground parking facility...

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I feel like anyone that doesn't currently feel safe walking downtown kitchener are not the target audience of an urban revitalization project. DTK is really not a scary place.  On a game/ concert day, it's not like everyone would eat or shop in dtk kitchener, but if 10-20% did that would still be a huge boost to the local economy.

I don't think this is true....I think downtown should be for everyone. And really, downtown won't do well if the majority of the population is afraid to come downtown. Unfortunately, I don't know how to fix people, and that is the problem, much more than downtown. But leaving them out of the "target audience" certainly isn't going to help.

As for "a huge boost to the local economy", I wish we'd stop framing everything in the context of "economy". I mean, sure it would bring money downtown, but leaving aside the direct costs of building such a huge facility, what are the opportunity cost, what else could we have built instead? Would housing result in more than 10-20% of those staying downtown? Would other resources have enriched downtown to a greater extent. But lets also leave that aside, what harm does a huge number of people showing up on a few dozen game days a year, all driving downtown, parking for a few hours and 90% leaving without spending a dime outside of the arena? I think that would actually be net harmful to downtown, not just because of the traffic, but also because of how it shifts the conversation. Most suburban people's (you know, the ones who the pols listen to) experience of downtown would be frustrating traffic and actual parking problems (you know, as opposed to the imaginary ones we have now). This kind of thing shifts the conversation and centres the issues faced by transient people in the city. (And yeah, I call them transient, because that's what the word means, despite it usually being used as a euphemism for other people).

Ultimately, IMO the key to improving downtown is to make it a place people want to be. If the city does that, all the rest will come. Until that happens, it won't matter what else is done.