09-02-2023, 04:43 PM
(09-01-2023, 07:59 PM)tomh009 Wrote: I'm not super familiar with the Conestoga program, but my expectations are pretty low when it's a one-year "post-graduate diploma" in mobile development. Incoming students often have masters degrees and some work experience in their home countries, so I don't expect that most of them gain very much knowledge from this program. (Conestoga does have international students taking two- and three-year programs, too.)
In my view, this kind of program is clearly designed (intentionally!) as a pathway to PR for international software developers looking to relocate to Canada. Maybe the "mobile development" program is intended to ensure that the students can also become competent mobile developers, but that is surely secondary. I surely would not hire based on that program (and we don't), but within those programs there are also some excellent people worthy of employment, the challenge is in identifying them--as with any candidates, domestic or foreign.
Experience ... I will hire a smart person over an experienced one every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Smart people will learn quickly, but experience doesn't guarantee that the person will get any smarter.
I believe they both took the two year "Computer Programming" course. I would be very skeptical of anything shorter than that as being in the same ballpark as bootcamps. The international student did have development experience back in India actually, so you might still be correct that it was a pathway to PR for them, but I don't think that's a good thing for our domestic industry. I have never worked with a single Indian contractor (located in India) that was anything but a burden, and we allegedly used some of the most expensive and highest quality contractors available. Meanwhile, every Indian national that I've worked with located in the US, which has very strong filtering for Indians, has been extremely competent. If our colleges are meant as a pathway for skilled workers to enter the country, they need to actually act as proper filters for skill.
Though regarding hiring, yes it's much more nuanced than just looking at credentials. Hiring well is very difficult and I've made many mistakes... People with decades more experience doing it still make mistakes. But colleges muddying the waters makes it so much more difficult to even get started with applicants. I agree regarding smart vs. experience, but that doesn't rule out a need for experienced people at certain times (but I wasn't trying to make that argument anyways, I was just trying to compare the education the two got, while keeping in mind that they have different levels of experience influencing how I evaluate them).
(09-01-2023, 07:59 PM)tomh009 Wrote: As several commenters point out, the colleges' actions to get more international students have been driven by the provincial funding having been frozen since 2018. That means the government funding is effectively almost 20% lower than it was five years ago; all post-secondary institutions (and colleges in particular) turned to international student enrolment to close that funding gap.
I'm sure that's a factor, and I don't agree with freezing funding, but it's not a complete argument. This same situation is occurring at basically every college in Canada, not just in Ontario. And at the end of the day, if international students are causing societal/economic/whatever issues, the buck stops with the federal government issuing visas.