Amalgamation

[MacBerry]

Wait....if amalgamation happens and the name changes, do we need to change this site's name????

I think "Berlin Connected" has a great ring 

[Coke6pk]

 
The airlines call Toronto Toronto on their signs in airports all over the world, even though it is called Pearson International Airport by us.

That just proves my point, because the actual name of the airport is either “Toronto Pearson” or “Toronto Pearson International Airport”:

https://www.torontopearson.com/

I’m not sure if the “International Airport” is part of the name or just a description.

The equivalent for our airport would be calling it just “Waterloo”, although obviously mentioning the ON and CA bits is necessary. So I would call it “Waterloo ON” within Canada and something that mentions Canada and probably also Ontario outside of Canada.

I can tell you that on quite a few occasions there were people waiting for family/friends to get off the plane, and we later found out they were Iowa by mistake.  Likely a reason why the airlines used Kitchener as a destination.  [Sunwing does the same in Dominican, as did AA in Chicago].

Airlines can call the airport whatever they want.... Globespan (flew into Hamilton from UK and other European destinations) referred to it as "Toronto - John C Munroe".  Many deplaned thinking they were in Toronto, and not an hour away.  The airline reps told them its a roughly 45 min taxi ride downtown... no different from Toronto-Pearson.

Coke

[Spokes]

Don’t mess with success, local mayors, regional chair tell provincial advisers

The current two-tier municipal government system is working well in Waterloo Region, the region's mayors and regional chair emphasized Thursday during meetings with provincial advisers on municipal reform.

The province announced in January that it was appointing Waterloo Region's former chair, Ken Seiling, and Michael Fenn, a former deputy minister and chief administrator of Hamilton-Wentworth Region, to review the governments of Waterloo Region and eight other regions and counties, with an eye to finding efficiencies and cutting costs.

The announcement sparked concern about whether the province might force local municipalities to merge into one supercity. The City of Cambridge, and the rural townships in particular, fear their identities may get erased if the province opts for amalgamation.

The advisers were in town Thursday to meet individually with each of the mayors of the region's three cities and four townships, as well as with regional Chair Karen Redman. They are to make recommendations to the province by this summer.

Any reforms should proceed only if they actually make life better for the residents and businesses of the region, Redman said. "I don't think you can start or end (only) with what the right number of politicians is for Waterloo Region."

https://www.therecord.com/news-story/916...-advisers/

[jeffster]

Don’t mess with success, local mayors, regional chair tell provincial advisers

The current two-tier municipal government system is working well in Waterloo Region, the region's mayors and regional chair emphasized Thursday during meetings with provincial advisers on municipal reform.

The province announced in January that it was appointing Waterloo Region's former chair, Ken Seiling, and Michael Fenn, a former deputy minister and chief administrator of Hamilton-Wentworth Region, to review the governments of Waterloo Region and eight other regions and counties, with an eye to finding efficiencies and cutting costs.

The announcement sparked concern about whether the province might force local municipalities to merge into one supercity. The City of Cambridge, and the rural townships in particular, fear their identities may get erased if the province opts for amalgamation.

The advisers were in town Thursday to meet individually with each of the mayors of the region's three cities and four townships, as well as with regional Chair Karen Redman. They are to make recommendations to the province by this summer.

Any reforms should proceed only if they actually make life better for the residents and businesses of the region, Redman said. "I don't think you can start or end (only) with what the right number of politicians is for Waterloo Region."

https://www.therecord.com/news-story/916...-advisers/

Good....we really don't need amalgamation. Hopefully the Ford Government will listen to this. I haven't met anyone that wants this. Only plus to this is signage on the 401 saying "Name of City....Population 565,000"

[MidTowner]

We don't need amalgamation, per se, but there are definitely people who want it. I'm ambivalent. At some point, it will likely happen, and in some ways I think the integration will be more difficult the longer the wait. Specifically I think it will be an increasing issue if Cambridge's growth lags and Kitchener's and Waterloo's, and Kitchener (in particular) starts providing services that seem more like "big city" ones.

Similarly, I think amalgamation might be pretty appealing to some newcomers to suburban areas of a few of the townships. I can definitely imagine a time in the future where a majority of residents of Breslau, for example, might not really share the "rural culture" that's used by the townships in opposition to amalgamation.

[danbrotherston]

We don't need amalgamation, per se, but there are definitely people who want it. I'm ambivalent. At some point, it will likely happen, and in some ways I think the integration will be more difficult the longer the wait. Specifically I think it will be an increasing issue if Cambridge's growth lags and Kitchener's and Waterloo's, and Kitchener (in particular) starts providing services that seem more like "big city" ones.

Similarly, I think amalgamation might be pretty appealing to some newcomers to suburban areas of a few of the townships. I can definitely imagine a time in the future where a majority of residents of Breslau, for example, might not really share the "rural culture" that's used by the townships in opposition to amalgamation.

They might not share that "rural culture"...I think that's already the case...but anyone know what the tax rates are?  I'm guessing much lower...but I don't know for sure...  If so, I'm sure they'd miss that.

[tomh009]

We don't need amalgamation, per se, but there are definitely people who want it. I'm ambivalent. At some point, it will likely happen, and in some ways I think the integration will be more difficult the longer the wait. Specifically I think it will be an increasing issue if Cambridge's growth lags and Kitchener's and Waterloo's, and Kitchener (in particular) starts providing services that seem more like "big city" ones.

Similarly, I think amalgamation might be pretty appealing to some newcomers to suburban areas of a few of the townships. I can definitely imagine a time in the future where a majority of residents of Breslau, for example, might not really share the "rural culture" that's used by the townships in opposition to amalgamation.

They might not share that "rural culture"...I think that's already the case...but anyone know what the tax rates are?  I'm guessing much lower...but I don't know for sure...  If so, I'm sure they'd miss that.

The total property tax in Kitchener is about 20% higher.

[tomh009]

Carl Zehr writes in favour of amalgamation in The Record:
https://www.therecord.com/opinion-story/...carl-zehr/

I am speaking as a citizen by drawing upon my 26 years of personal experience as a councillor and mayor. I believe now is the time to change our governance structure to equip this community for the future. There may never be a perfect moment to change. Let's embrace this as an opportunity, rather than a threat, an opportunity to reinvent our community, an opportunity to update and polish its brand and give everyone here the means to be part of something bigger, something important, fresh, new.

The truth is, amalgamated or not, we'll always be from the communities, villages and neighbourhoods we call home.

[Spokes]

The man carries a lot of weight, but not sure he'll get a lot of support on this one.

[ijmorlan]

Carl Zehr writes in favour of amalgamation in The Record:
https://www.therecord.com/opinion-story/...carl-zehr/

I am speaking as a citizen by drawing upon my 26 years of personal experience as a councillor and mayor. I believe now is the time to change our governance structure to equip this community for the future. There may never be a perfect moment to change. Let's embrace this as an opportunity, rather than a threat, an opportunity to reinvent our community, an opportunity to update and polish its brand and give everyone here the means to be part of something bigger, something important, fresh, new.

The truth is, amalgamated or not, we'll always be from the communities, villages and neighbourhoods we call home.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: by all means gradually move individual responsibilities to the Region. But don’t do an official amalgamation for the foreseeable future. It just doesn’t have that big a benefit, and the benefits that actually exist can be had by moving the specific areas of responsibility to the Region. For example, he says “We need one Emergency Plan instead of eight”. I’m at least sympathetic to this statement. But if so, why not just merge the City offices responsible for the emergency plan into the Region? I think fire services and the libraries are good candidates for making Regional responsibilities. I don’t know enough to say for sure; but I think those would be good ones to study.

And really his argument is circular: he gives a bunch of examples, but ones like “We need one local government with one set of bylaws” really just re-state what he’s trying to support.

[tvot]

The man carries a lot of weight, but not sure he'll get a lot of support on this one.

Yeah, my take on it when I saw the link on Twitter was that the former mayor of Kitchener espoused these views when he was in office too, so no big surprise. It seems to me that in the past Kitchener was always more in favour of Amalgamation than Waterloo... in 2010 from Wikipedia:

"Kitchener residents voted 2–1 in favour of studying the merger while Waterloo residents voted 2–1 against"
-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_M...f_Waterloo

I myself really don't know what to think, some of the arguments for amalgamation make sense to me, but at the same time I think those arguments rely on things working ideally and there's a lot of data from past amalgamations to show that things won't go smoothly.

[jeffster]

The needs and the wants of all 7 communities in the region are so different I can't see how it could go smoothly. There's already enough grief in this region when Kitchener or Waterloo gets selected for something over Cambridge (such as the new courthouse, for example, or the GO Train). People from Cambridge already think that anyone north of the 401 are shady. And one reason why they'd not build the sports complex anywhere near Kitchener. As for people from Waterloo, they're a prideful bunch that want little association with 'those people' from Cambridge or Kitchener. As for Kitchener, it has a general belief that since it's by far the largest city in this group, that everything should wind up in Kitchener, no matter what it is.

This area isn't like Toronto: Very few people ever paid attention to the other cities in "Metro Toronto". It was Toronto for most people. As for Hamilton, Hamilton was, by far, the largest and most central city in the old Hamilton-Wentworth region, and it easily absorbed the other towns; that said, Dundas is still Dundas, same with Ancaster and Stoney Creek and the smaller villages.

With 3 local Conservative MPP's, none from areas that really want this amalgamation, they'll all get an earful regarding this idea.

For that reason, I do believe that this is going to end up DOA.

[MidTowner]

The needs and the wants of all 7 communities in the region are so different I can't see how it could go smoothly. There's already enough grief in this region when Kitchener or Waterloo gets selected for something over Cambridge (such as the new courthouse, for example, or the GO Train). People from Cambridge already think that anyone north of the 401 are shady. And one reason why they'd not build the sports complex anywhere near Kitchener. As for people from Waterloo, they're a prideful bunch that want little association with 'those people' from Cambridge or Kitchener. As for Kitchener, it has a general belief that since it's by far the largest city in this group, that everything should wind up in Kitchener, no matter what it is.

This area isn't like Toronto: Very few people ever paid attention to the other cities in "Metro Toronto". It was Toronto for most people. As for Hamilton, Hamilton was, by far, the largest and most central city in the old Hamilton-Wentworth region, and it easily absorbed the other towns; that said, Dundas is still Dundas, same with Ancaster and Stoney Creek and the smaller villages.

With 3 local Conservative MPP's, none from areas that really want this amalgamation, they'll all get an earful regarding this idea.

For that reason, I do believe that this is going to end up DOA.

What you say in the second paragraph is not really correct. Old Toronto, North York and Scarborough were not far apart in terms of population, for instance (and it was North York's mayor that defeated Toronto's, not the other way around, for the first mayoralty of the megacity). All the municipalities had all been subject to the the same regional government for almost fifty years but, like you say about the different communities of Waterloo, they all still had unique identities.

To say "very few people ever paid attention to the other cities in 'Metro Toronto'" is about as valid as an outsider saying "when you drive from Cambridge to Waterloo, you don't even notice when you've left one municipality and entered another."

The challenges are not insurmountable or very different from those faced by municipalities elsewhere that amalgamate. It can be done.

[jeffster]

The needs and the wants of all 7 communities in the region are so different I can't see how it could go smoothly. There's already enough grief in this region when Kitchener or Waterloo gets selected for something over Cambridge (such as the new courthouse, for example, or the GO Train). People from Cambridge already think that anyone north of the 401 are shady. And one reason why they'd not build the sports complex anywhere near Kitchener. As for people from Waterloo, they're a prideful bunch that want little association with 'those people' from Cambridge or Kitchener. As for Kitchener, it has a general belief that since it's by far the largest city in this group, that everything should wind up in Kitchener, no matter what it is.

This area isn't like Toronto: Very few people ever paid attention to the other cities in "Metro Toronto". It was Toronto for most people. As for Hamilton, Hamilton was, by far, the largest and most central city in the old Hamilton-Wentworth region, and it easily absorbed the other towns; that said, Dundas is still Dundas, same with Ancaster and Stoney Creek and the smaller villages.

With 3 local Conservative MPP's, none from areas that really want this amalgamation, they'll all get an earful regarding this idea.

For that reason, I do believe that this is going to end up DOA.

What you say in the second paragraph is not really correct. Old Toronto, North York and Scarborough were not far apart in terms of population, for instance (and it was North York's mayor that defeated Toronto's, not the other way around, for the first mayoralty of the megacity). All the municipalities had all been subject to the the same regional government for almost fifty years but, like you say about the different communities of Waterloo, they all still had unique identities.

To say "very few people ever paid attention to the other cities in 'Metro Toronto'" is about as valid as an outsider saying "when you drive from Cambridge to Waterloo, you don't even notice when you've left one municipality and entered another."

The challenges are not insurmountable or very different from those faced by municipalities elsewhere that amalgamate. It can be done.

I was referring to Hamilton when it came to population, not Toronto.

I lived in Toronto (Scarborough) and, this is back in the late 1970's and 1980's, it was Toronto. Only thing you'd notice is the city signs when travelling between cities. If you lived there, then you would know that. For all intents and purposes most people considered themselves Torontonians. Of course, there were some pride for each ones city, but not like what you see in this region.

As for driving between Cambridge and Waterloo, I think many would see a divide between Cambridge and Kitchener. Perhaps some might confuse parts of Hespeler/Kitchener (Sportsworld and Mapleview Drive), there still is a good distinction between the cities. Although Kitchener-Waterloo do look like one city.

Back to topic, some other things to consider about amalgamation:

Who's infrastructure is in better shape? If there are large differences, will the cities in better shape want to have to fix up the cities in poor shape?

When it comes to utilities, Kitchener (Wilmot) and Waterloo (Woolwich & Wellesley) both own their electrical system. Cambridge and North Dumfries do not.

Kitchener owns its gas company (Kitchener Utilities), both Waterloo and Cambridge are Union Gas, and I am guessing the townships too, don't.

Anyway, the one thing I am getting at is that there is more division in this region, sadly, then there was in the Toronto CMA and Hamilton CMA. Could it work? Of course. But would it be easy? Nope.

[jeffster]

OK PEOPLE! Here is your chance to voice your input.

https://www.ontario.ca/form/survey-regio...ent-review

Do it often, and hopefully the right decision will be made.