Charles St GRT terminal redevelopment

[westwardloo]

What is the lowest rise building in there proposed to be used for?

The reason I say focus on things that bring people together and quite frankly make DTK look nicer and desirable, is because I believe there are enoihh vacant business spaces to satisfy office needs for the next little bit. I also believe there are enough condo units in the pipeline. We run the risk of being just pure condo units and not driving what should be a cultural and entertainment CENTRAL for Kitchener.

Let's be honest. To outsiders (and literally to Kitchener folk in the 'burbs), DTK is not considered a first-class Canadian town. I'm thinking we change this.

We leverage the Greenspace already in existence at Victoria Park (an amazing and well laid out urban park, with water feature), and we maximize this space for something that says 'wow'.

Condo units are not going to wow anyone. Especially the kind we like to design in KW.

Am I alone in this?

The shorter 6 or 8 storey building located along Joseph street is proposed to be community/ cultural space. They could fit quite a bit of amenities in a building that size.  I think we will definitely see a first nations space/ either a community centre or museum or both. But that will most likely not take up the whole building, unless we get national/ provincial funding to build a bigger attractions similar to Human Rights museum in Winnipeg. 

I agree with you that we need to put something in this space that draws people downtown. I don't agree with some of the commenters here that say the museum is struggling so we can't build more cultural focused space. 

Having said that, DTK will be a success if we can have as many people as possible living downtown, so incorporating condo's/ affordable rental units into the development will be a net positive for the city.

[panamaniac]

It would make a good space for an expanded KWAG. A small (250 seat or smaller) concert hall might be nice too. The indigenous element may be inevitable, although why there rather than in existing spaces I have no idea.

[Momo26]

I'm all for incorporating all the things...don't get me wrong me please. We need to be realistic.

It would be unwise to create a space for say, Truth and Reconciliation that goes unused for 95% of the year (I think we can all picture something like this).

Instead why not bring community leadership AND COMMUNITY together, to provide input that allows us to weave within state of the art facilities, the elements that make Canada such a great nation?

[tomh009]

Let's be honest. To outsiders (and literally to Kitchener folk in the 'burbs), DTK is not considered a first-class Canadian town. I'm thinking we change this.

What similar-sized Canadian cities would be considered "first-class"?

[Momo26]

Mississauga is similar in population go KWC isn't it?

I know I was being specific to Kitchener though.

Victoria? Rarely criticized as a ghetto or ghetto lite and less than half the pop of Kitchener.

Even Guelph is looked at it better light to many outsiders and imo is inferior to Kitchener in many ways.

[jeffster]

Let's be honest. To outsiders (and literally to Kitchener folk in the 'burbs), DTK is not considered a first-class Canadian town. I'm thinking we change this.

What similar-sized Canadian cities would be considered "first-class"?

DTK needs a lot of help. Sadly, I think our mayor has zero visions for DTK. Years ago it was heading in the right direction, but that doesn't seem to be the case right now, and sadly, Kitchener citizens rarely fire their mayor (Waterloo, OTOH...)

Anyway, I would say any city close to our size has a better DT. Nothing special in Kitchener anymore. Even city hall is locked down now (that was due to the safe injection site, btw). Sunlife and Manulife have left DTK, Google is basically in mid-town so that doesn't count.

Really, the city should be ashamed of the state of DTK. No excuse for its decline.

[westwardloo]

What similar-sized Canadian cities would be considered "first-class"?

DTK needs a lot of help. Sadly, I think our mayor has zero visions for DTK. Years ago it was heading in the right direction, but that doesn't seem to be the case right now, and sadly, Kitchener citizens rarely fire their mayor (Waterloo, OTOH...)

Anyway, I would say any city close to our size has a better DT. Nothing special in Kitchener anymore. Even city hall is locked down now (that was due to the safe injection site, btw). Sunlife and Manulife have left DTK, Google is basically in mid-town so that doesn't count.

Really, the city should be ashamed of the state of DTK. No excuse for its decline.

Stantec also left the DTK core. Unfortunately you can blame City of Waterloo city policy which allowed suburban office parks with sea of free parking. I think as more people live DTK the more likely we are for a major tenant to want to set up shop in the core.

[KingandWeber]

What similar-sized Canadian cities would be considered "first-class"?

DTK needs a lot of help. Sadly, I think our mayor has zero visions for DTK. Years ago it was heading in the right direction, but that doesn't seem to be the case right now, and sadly, Kitchener citizens rarely fire their mayor (Waterloo, OTOH...)

Anyway, I would say any city close to our size has a better DT. Nothing special in Kitchener anymore. Even city hall is locked down now (that was due to the safe injection site, btw). Sunlife and Manulife have left DTK, Google is basically in mid-town so that doesn't count.

Really, the city should be ashamed of the state of DTK. No excuse for its decline.

I definitely agree that our mayor lacks vision, but there is obviously a big excuse for the decline - being Covid, of course, and then its knock-on effects. Every Canadian downtown has deteriorated since Covid. Toronto is still nowhere near rebounded to the activity levels it saw pre-pandemic. Meanwhile, Kitchener was hit especially hard since a lot of the office activity up until Covid was from tech companies and they've moved to remote working more than other businesses. That said, I think that means you need an even clearer vision and focus on revitalizing downtown whereas, as you say, we really have none. I feel like the approach right now is to tread water under the completely naive hope that things will go back to "normal" at some point, and that's simply never going to happen. We should really be in crisis mode thinking to try to turn things around, but there doesn't seem to be any sense of urgency at all.

[westwardloo]

In my opinion downtown Arena would be a vision that could help revitalize the downtown core, unfortunately I don't think the current political climate would allow us to spend money on something seen as a "luxury" when we have a giant homeless encampment in our core. 

I do think the pendulum is swinging back away from the municipal councils goal to end homelessness at all cost. There are so many layers to the issue of homelessness that are actually a provincial/ Federal issues. Relying on property tax payers to solve this was never going to result in zero homeless in our Region. I do still think we need to try to provide shelter space/ housing to those who want/ need help.

[the_conestoga_guy]

DTK needs a lot of help. Sadly, I think our mayor has zero visions for DTK. Years ago it was heading in the right direction, but that doesn't seem to be the case right now, and sadly, Kitchener citizens rarely fire their mayor (Waterloo, OTOH...)

Anyway, I would say any city close to our size has a better DT. Nothing special in Kitchener anymore. Even city hall is locked down now (that was due to the safe injection site, btw). Sunlife and Manulife have left DTK, Google is basically in mid-town so that doesn't count.

Really, the city should be ashamed of the state of DTK. No excuse for its decline.

I definitely agree that our mayor lacks vision, but there is obviously a big excuse for the decline - being Covid, of course, and then its knock-on effects. Every Canadian downtown has deteriorated since Covid. Toronto is still nowhere near rebounded to the activity levels it saw pre-pandemic. Meanwhile, Kitchener was hit especially hard since a lot of the office activity up until Covid was from tech companies and they've moved to remote working more than other businesses. That said, I think that means you need an even clearer vision and focus on revitalizing downtown whereas, as you say, we really have none. I feel like the approach right now is to tread water under the completely naive hope that things will go back to "normal" at some point, and that's simply never going to happen. We should really be in crisis mode thinking to try to turn things around, but there doesn't seem to be any sense of urgency at all.

I think the biggest issue is that there isn't a cohesive plan for DTK - at least nothing publicly available. 

The city has started making progress on a bunch of piecemeal projects: the cycling grid, the Bramm Yards plan, the transit hub, the (attempted) pedestrianization of the area around the market, coordinating with the College to take over under-used spaces like the mall, and now the bus terminal re-development. There's even the district heating study ongoing, which isn't as sexy, but is a meaningful attempt to decarbonize our new downtown buildings.

I appreciate that all of these projects are in the works, but for the average person in the 'burbs, it can make the vision appear fuzzy. I think, at the very least, the city should put something up on its Engage page and call it "The Great Downtown Revitalization", and basically just post links to all of these projects and show them on a single map. This could give everyone the opportunity to see what's happening in one place, and to provide feedback on the gaps in the plan (of which there are certainly many).

[tomh009]

What similar-sized Canadian cities would be considered "first-class"?

Anyway, I would say any city close to our size has a better DT.

So, in your opinion, London, Oshawa, Hamilton, Brampton and Windsor all have better downtowns? And only ours is a disaster?

Just want to understand what your benchmarks are. Because I have seen the downtowns in the above cities ...

[Momo26]

I think another poster put it better - lots of downtown aren't doing too well.

Yes Hamilton downtown is probably better (problems aside - which are DTK problems now). There far more to do, a proper concert/sports venue, many more restos and offices.

Don't go so far...look at Uptown Waterloo. There isn't even a debate there.

[Joedelay Highhoe]

DTK losing the techies was a major hit. They provided a ton of walking traffic and business for restaurants and shops. I also know of at least one law firm that moved out to Riverbend drive. Downtown used to be "cool." Now, at least in my opinion, it's much less-so.

[Momo26]

I definitely agree that our mayor lacks vision, but there is obviously a big excuse for the decline - being Covid, of course, and then its knock-on effects. Every Canadian downtown has deteriorated since Covid. Toronto is still nowhere near rebounded to the activity levels it saw pre-pandemic. Meanwhile, Kitchener was hit especially hard since a lot of the office activity up until Covid was from tech companies and they've moved to remote working more than other businesses. That said, I think that means you need an even clearer vision and focus on revitalizing downtown whereas, as you say, we really have none. I feel like the approach right now is to tread water under the completely naive hope that things will go back to "normal" at some point, and that's simply never going to happen. We should really be in crisis mode thinking to try to turn things around, but there doesn't seem to be any sense of urgency at all.

I think the biggest issue is that there isn't a cohesive plan for DTK - at least nothing publicly available. 

The city has started making progress on a bunch of piecemeal projects: the cycling grid, the Bramm Yards plan, the transit hub, the (attempted) pedestrianization of the area around the market, coordinating with the College to take over under-used spaces like the mall, and now the bus terminal re-development. There's even the district heating study ongoing, which isn't as sexy, but is a meaningful attempt to decarbonize our new downtown buildings.

I appreciate that all of these projects are in the works, but for the average person in the 'burbs, it can make the vision appear fuzzy. I think, at the very least, the city should put something up on its Engage page and call it "The Great Downtown Revitalization", and basically just post links to all of these projects and show them on a single map. This could give everyone the opportunity to see what's happening in one place, and to provide feedback on the gaps in the plan (of which there are certainly many).

I like that idea.

How many net new people are actually venturing downtown each season? 

You got your handful of events...you got Oktoberfest festivities, on which a bow is placed and it's called Kris Kringle. You have the park (imo still under utilized), and the peripheral.

People come downtown, eat and leave. Yes there is an influx of students because of CC in the old Market Square but I don't think that is doing a lot for sustained Renaissance (majority of those students are on visas and probably leaving).

[bravado]

As a relative outsider down in Galt, DTK is positively bustling and vibrant… seeing kids playing in the city hall fountain is such a unique sight compared to almost any other dead, sterile downtown in Ontario.