Garment Street Condos | 25 & 6 fl | Complete

[ijmorlan]

You would think that there could be a way to make owners pay for all of their own utilities.

Yes, absolutely utilities are best charged to each unit. There can be difficulties in working with the utilities however. For example, at one point I was discussing water billing with somebody and they said that in new installations the water utility would only bill close to where the pipe entered the property, not downstream of a bunch of junctions and valves feeding water to individual units. Essentially, the utility is worried about problems with leaks upstream of the meters.

There is a simple solution to this, but it requires co-operation of the utilities: meter all the water going in from the street, and also meter the water going to each unit. Bill each unit for its consumption, and bill the condo for the water going in from the street minus the total of water going to all the units. Then the condo is on the hook for any leakage or other problems within the building and upstream of the individual unit meters.

Public policy of attempting to reduce utility usage should pretty much force this approach, but instead we muddle around with ineffective attempts to appear to be doing something.

I’ll also take this moment to recall the absurd situation in the UW grad townhouses. Each unit has its own electricity meter, but they’re all paid by the University and the fixed rent includes electricity. Then, they have rules about air conditioners where you have to apply to the commissar for permission to run one. Absolutely nutty.

[creative]

It seems that with condo-apartments you pay a lot more on condo fees than you would with a condo-townhome. I figured the one issue is water usage. There are folks out there that will have their 40 minute shower and baths filled to the brim because they get the water 'for free'. It is not. My friend was saying that water was the biggest expense (he was on the board) and was over $200/unit.

You would think that there could be a way to make owners pay for all of their own utilities.

That said, it doesn't seem worth it to buy a condo-apartment if your expenses will still exceed $800-$1,000/month based on taxes, condo fees and electric.

The condo fees really depend on (1) the cost of operating the building (maintenance, cleaning, insurance, snow removal, landscaping and utilities) and (2) reserve fund contributions. The first group you pay for even in a SFH, although some of it you might pay with your own personal labour. The second group is for future building repairs and maintenance; in a SFH you will still have those costs (new roof, new windows, new driveway etc) but you don't save for them in advance.

But take a look at what a roof costs and divide by 15; the cost of new windows divided by maybe 30; new air conditioner divided by maybe 20, and so on, a house is not maintenance-free, either.

We did the math before we moved into a condo (apartment) and have no regrets about it. And that's not even including the cost savings from going from two cars to one ...

The problem that I have is with the reserve fund portion of your condo fees. If you buy a new build the examples that you gave above should hopefully not need replacing in the first 10 years. If say $200 per month of your condo fees go towards future repairs, that equates to $2,400 per year or $24,000 after 10 years. If I decide to sell my condo I don’t get any of that money I paid in. If a single family homeowner puts aside a reserve fund for future repairs and decides to sell, they would keep their reserve fund. Now if you plan on staying in the condo longer it works in your favour as most people will not have a future repair fund. I’m definitely not arguing with you. I just wanted to point out my thoughts. It sounds like condo life works for you which is all that really matters. This coming from a longtime single family homeowner who has spent significantly on updates and repairs over the last little while. We intend on staying here another 20 years so no problem with spending the money. And yes we saved funds for these repairs.

[tomh009]

There is a simple solution to this, but it requires co-operation of the utilities: meter all the water going in from the street, and also meter the water going to each unit. Bill each unit for its consumption, and bill the condo for the water going in from the street minus the total of water going to all the units. Then the condo is on the hook for any leakage or other problems within the building and upstream of the individual unit meters.

That's hundreds of individual water pipes throughout the building. Some construction cost, some space (a few elevator shafts' worth at the minimum)--and a lot more pipe connections that can potentially leak.

[KevinL]

There is a simple solution to this, but it requires co-operation of the utilities: meter all the water going in from the street, and also meter the water going to each unit. Bill each unit for its consumption, and bill the condo for the water going in from the street minus the total of water going to all the units. Then the condo is on the hook for any leakage or other problems within the building and upstream of the individual unit meters.

That's hundreds of individual water pipes throughout the building. Some construction cost, some space (a few elevator shafts' worth at the minimum)--and a lot more pipe connections that can potentially leak.

Surely each meter can be placed where the water enters each unit?

[tomh009]

That's hundreds of individual water pipes throughout the building. Some construction cost, some space (a few elevator shafts' worth at the minimum)--and a lot more pipe connections that can potentially leak.

Surely each meter can be placed where the water enters each unit?

I don't believe the meter-reading is normally done inside buildings. But maybe it's possible.

But is it worth it? In our building the water bill averages about $60/unit/month, and that includes common area usage as well. Doesn't seem like a huge problem to be solved.

[ijmorlan]

The utility would be fine with having many individual pipes metered more or less at the property line (or maybe where the many pipes enter the building). But as pointed out, that’s a lot of extra piping. My idea is to pipe it more or less as it is now, but put the meters where each unit’s pipe enters the unit. The problem is that the utility would be legitimately concerned about leaks between where the pipe enters the building and where the meters are at each unit. They don’t want to be in charge of maintaining that part of the piping.

Right now, individual condos can pay one bill to the water utility and then charge back to their unit owners by maintained their own meters, but that is a lot of overhead; in effect they would act as a small water company with a lot of billing overhead.

My solution is for the real water utility to meter both the entrance to the building and the entrances to the individual units. Bill the units as normal for houses, and bill the condo itself only for the difference between the building meter and the total of the individual unit meters. This difference could either be water used by the condo itself (e.g. a fountain, or a sink in a common area), but a better idea would be to meter all uses of the water so the overall bill in principle should come out to zero. This would allow easy detection of leaks: just look for a significant water bill to the building itself.

Nowadays meters have remote reporting devices installed, so this would not require a meter reader to enter the building. I believe it’s actually automatic now, and able to be considerably more frequent than monthly thanks to the automation.

[creative]

The city owns and is responsible for the water pipes up to where they enter your building including the water meter. Beyond the meter is the buildings responsibility.

[ijmorlan]

The city owns and is responsible for the water pipes up to where they enter your building including the water meter. Beyond the meter is the buildings responsibility.

Exactly, that’s what I’m talking about.

The discussion I had was in the context of a townhouse complex where the whole complex is a condominium but each block of houses has a single water meter, except for the semis right on the street which are individually metered. I wondered what would be involved in individually metering the rest of the units, and the answer is basically that the City wants the meter close to the property line (so even the existing arrangement would not now be installed new, as I understood it). The solution is for the City to provide the service of doing the individual metering for the units even where there is a main meter at the building or townhouse complex entrance.

The only change in billing software required would be for certain meters to have subtracted from their measurement the total quantity metered by certain other meters.

[GarmentGate]

The following is part of a court filing:

On October 30, 2022 I submit a Tarion Delayed Closing/Occupancy Form. A copy is sent to Victoria Street.

On November 23, 2022 I receive a response from Slonee Malhotra of Sorbara Law. Included are the assertions:

“As per the Act, the Tentative Closing Date Agreement of Purchase and Sale and its Addendum, the Vendor has provided you with the required notice for any and all delays”

“Each instance of an extension was carried forward through providing the Purchaser with a copy of the appropriate Notice within the requisite time period. As long as the Outside Occupancy Date is not exceeded, your builder can extend your Occupancy Date without paying you delayed occupancy compensation”

“All notices ending unavoidable delays were provided no later than 20 days after the Vendor knew or ought to know that the unavoidable delays had concluded and setting new critical dates”

“We hope that this information satisfies you that there is no further action warranted on this claim.”

On June 16, 2023 I submit a Tarion Request for Warranty Assessment.

On or about January 9, 2024 I receive the Tarion Claim Resolution Schedule. Conclusion:

The August 15, 2022 notices ending the Strike, Flood, and Covid-19 UD Events (as well as the April 8, 2022 Covid-19 UD notice) did not meet the requirements of section 5 of the Addendum and therefore were ineƯective. The Critical Dates which existed at the time the first notice of the First Unavoidable Delay Event was sent, specifically the Firm Occupancy Date of May 12, 2022, remained unchanged.

The Purchaser is entitled to Delayed Closing Compensation for the time period between the Firm Closing Date of May 12, 2022 to September 6, 2022; 117 days. Therefore, the Purchaser is entitled to the maximum compensation in the amount of $7,500.00.

That is welcomed news! By the sounds of it you are well on your way to collect $7,500 (117 x 150 daily amount up to max of 7,500?). Congrats!

Unfortunately at this point I believe most people never filled out/claimed delayed compensation through Tarion, which from my understanding has to be filled out within 1 year of occupancy. Guessing everyone else is SOL.

Have you tried any of the suggestions (and gotten any results)?  Some additional suggestions:

5. Contact the City of Kitchener.  They approve development applications. CoK should be made aware if developers in the city are providing misinformation & aren't meeting their legal obligations.

https://www.kitchener.ca/en/contact-us.aspx
https://form.kitchener.ca/CSD/CCS/Contact-us

6. Contact The Media

https://www.therecord.com/site/static-pa...actus.html
News tips Do you have a news tip? Or photos for us to consider for publication? There are multiple options available for both registered and non-registered users. newsroom@therecord.com

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener...-1.3960034
News tips, story ideas, email: yournewskw@cbc.ca

https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/contact-us
News: news@kitchener.ctv.ca | 519-578-1313

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/contact-us
Consumer Alert (Pat Foran): alert@ctv.ca

https://www.cbc.ca/news/marketplace/subm...-1.5695097
Got a gripe? Getting the run-around? Fighting the good fight? Tell us about it! You can get in touch with us a few different ways: Email: marketplace@cbc.ca

[Momo26]

Oh am I glad I came back to this forum to see this. Thanks for sharing this information. 

Am I to understand you have the 'maximum' of $7500 coming your way due to the flooding delay specifically and since firm occupancy was set in writing for May 2022 but then pushed to Sept 2022?


With the bloody condo fees up 81% we need this compensation.

Can you give me guidance on going about my own claim?

1.     Contact Momentum directly. Tell them you’ve been aware the notices they sent out didn’t meet legal requirements and demand compensation.
 
2.     File a complaint with the Home Construction Regulatory Authority.  The builder sent out invalid notices which likely meant they avoided paying out million(s) of dollars in compensation. 
https://www.hcraontario.ca/licensing-com...complaint/
“If you have concerns that a licensed builder or vendor may have breached the Code of Ethics, please complete the form below.” 
https://hcraontario.ca/blog/the-code-of-ethics/
honesty, integrity, competent service, financial responsibility, unprofessional conduct, duty to comply with law, misrepresentation, forms and documents
 
3.     File an ethics, honesty, misleading statements complaint with the Law Society of Ontario against Seth Jutzi (& any other lawyer who gave you misinformation).  He’s a partner at momentum & lawyer at Sorbara Law.  He signed the notices that didn’t meet legal requirements. You can’t have lawyers putting out false statements/misinformation that benefits their development company to the tune of millions of dollars. This is a multi-million-dollar scandal, something that acts as an aggravating factor. Regulatory fines need to be imposed to deter that type of behavior. What is the integrity of a lawyer’s word worth? The Law Society of Ontario should order the lawyer(s) involved to retract/correct their statements to all affected purchasers (and make them whole).
https://lso.ca/protecting-the-public/com...you-with-5
 
4.     Investigate legal remedies (such as small claims court) that may be available to you on this issue.  Highlights from a legal firm’s article regarding new home warranties https://mccagueborlack.com/emails/articl...nties.html
"Court of Appeal confirms that home buyers are not barred by the provisions of the Ontario New Home Warranties Plan Act from pursuing remedies in the courts”
“There is nothing in the Act to suggest that the statutory scheme is exclusive, or that resort to court proceeding is barred. Indeed, the statute provides additional rights to those which a home buyer might otherwise have had. Had it been the intention of the legislature to set up an exclusive scheme, it would have been simple to say so, but the legislature did not.”
“To ensure that you are not caught by the arbitration provisions of the Act, be sure to include allegations of negligence against the builder in the Statement of Claim."

I sent PM but don't see it in my Sent folder.

[Momo26]

I want to wake this one up a little. Not because anything exciting is happening at the building other than another hike in condo fees...but guess who has submitted an appeal with the License Appeal Tribunal.

[Spokes]

Is everything complete over there? Can we update the thread status?

I feel like it has been. For a bit

[ac3r]

I'm pretty sure we could mark it as done at this point. If there's anything left, it's so minor you wouldn't notice anything going on.

[Momo26]

It's complete yes.


Anyone have experience with License Appeal Board stuff? DM me. Thanks