368 Ottawa Street South | 8 fl | Proposed

[Joedelay Highhoe]

I think a lot of "lower income people" actually rely on cars actually. It's often a misconception that those without a lot of money take the bus or whatever. Yes, transit works for a lot of them but the transit system in Waterloo Region is also pretty constricting. It can take over an hour or more to commute through this city if you need to take various transfers. I grew up working class and my parents didn't have a lot of money, but they also couldn't take the bus because it took so long. They had to rely on a cheap car.

If you're living in Kitchener and working in Cambridge in a factory or working in a store at Conestoga Mall, you can't waste 2 hours of your day taking various buses/the LRT as it's a huge time sink. It can be much easier to buy a junky used car that can get them around the city in 20 minutes. We can't forget that affordable does not always mean pinching every cent you can, it also means using your time economically which is especially true if you're not only working, but have second jobs, are educating yourself, have children to take care of etc.

I feel this... I commuted from DTK to cambridge on the iXpress for about 5-6 years before I got my brand new (15 year old) commuter car. On a good day my commute would take 60-70 minutes each way. At worst it could take nearly 2 hours if I missed a connection, or memorably during black friday when the bus took half an hour to navigate through the parking lot at fairview mall. If I ever buy a place to live, which I probably wont ever be able to afford, I would only look at places with parking.

[tomh009]

If you're living in Kitchener and working in Cambridge in a factory (...)

... you may also consider finding housing closer to your workplace so that you don't need to drive a car. I certainly know people who do that (or find work closer to their housing).

[dtkvictim]

I would almost go so far as to say that it makes no sense to make “affordable” housing with motor vehicle parking. By definition, affordable housing needs to leave out the fancy expensive upgrades: you wouldn’t put SubZero refrigerators or avant garde lighting fixtures in an affordable unit, so why would you put parking there?

At the same time I recognize that it’s precisely the people who need affordable housing who might need a space for their low-end car. But looking at the big picture it would make sense to have at least one area of the city where we make sure that a car truly isn’t needed, and put the affordable housing in areas that are designed that way. Of course, we don’t get to design the whole city all at once, which makes this harder.

I don't see why a car can't be a positive financial investment. A lot of jobs are still inaccessible without a car, and if you don't have in-demand skills you don't want to be closing any doors... I know plenty of university educated people who routinely go through the process of 400+ job applications just to get a single offer. A lot of solid low education or on the job training occupations may also be completely car dependent (trades, construction, landscaping, etc).

For those seeking multiple jobs to make ends meet, it may be impossible without a car as well, simply due to the sensitivity of timing multiple shift schedules.

It's fair to argue none of this should be the case (inaccessible jobs, needing multiple jobs), but that's the reality of our country and city.

Just as an FYI, my work allows me to make a lot of observations about vehicles in relation to Cooperative housing and 'affordable" house. You would be very surprised at the amount of high end vehicles parked in these lots. I often ask myself, how the heck do they afford these vehicles that I cant afford.... but I know the answer...

Actually, I’m not particularly clear on what you are alleging.

Re: car usage, I think it depends in part on what we mean by “affordable housing”. If we’re talking about an alternative to homelessness, it’s obvious that parking should not be included: it makes more sense to get 50 people off the street with no parking than 40 with parking (who probably can’t afford a vehicle anyway). But if we’re just talking about making sure that accommodation is available at a lower price point than it is in the larger market, then as ac3r points out many of these people don’t have good alternatives to vehicle use.

I don't know if it's what he is alluding too, but financial illiteracy and cultural pressures can easily put someone into a bad situation. I don't think the boomer avocado toast argument is too helpful, but the general idea of financial illiteracy is a non-0 factor in many people's poverty. It may not be the most significant factor, but it's still something worth addressing for those who need it.

If you're living in Kitchener and working in Cambridge in a factory (...)

... you may also consider finding housing closer to your workplace so that you don't need to drive a car. I certainly know people who do that (or find work closer to their housing).

1) Is this even an option if you are looking at affordable housing? Do you get to choose? Genuinely curious here.
2) This comment feels a little out of touch. Moving isn't free, perhaps more expensive than someone living paycheck-to-paycheck can afford. A lot of low paying jobs are also not anywhere close worth moving for between inconsistent (or malicious) scheduling, and poor working conditions, that will force you to look for new work after not too long.

[tomh009]

... you may also consider finding housing closer to your workplace so that you don't need to drive a car. I certainly know people who do that (or find work closer to their housing).

1) Is this even an option if you are looking at affordable housing? Do you get to choose? Genuinely curious here.
2) This comment feels a little out of touch. Moving isn't free, perhaps more expensive than someone living paycheck-to-paycheck can afford. A lot of low paying jobs are also not anywhere close worth moving for between inconsistent (or malicious) scheduling, and poor working conditions, that will force you to look for new work after not too long.

Instead of moving to a moderately affordable home in the suburbs (such as this one), you can move to one closer to your employment -- or not move at all. These are not income-geared housing (which has ridiculously long waiting lists) but just reasonably priced housing. Which certainly does exist elsewhere, too, albeit it can take some work to find one depending on your price and location criteria.

My point is that while our society is car-centric, it is possible to avoid having a car, or at least avoid having two cars. And offering people options that are not optimized for cars is a good thing.

[mastermind]

I guess I just thought that maybe affordable housing would have, say, 50% the number of parking spots as units, rather than 100%. Especially being really close an LRT stop.

[Acer]

152 affordable units is excellent news. Taking this into consideration, I will not complain about the appearance of the building.

Where is the source for your reference "affordable units"?  The developer has not noted it any of the applications and has not committed to making these affordable or even available to the general public.

[tomh009]

152 affordable units is excellent news. Taking this into consideration, I will not complain about the appearance of the building.

Where is the source for your reference "affordable units"?  The developer has not noted it any of the applications and has not committed to making these affordable or even available to the general public.

That was from ac3r's original post.

[panamaniac]

In fact, the documentation includes a reference to City staff encouraging the developer to include some affordable units. One would conclude that this is intended to be a market-rate building.