Taking roofs off malls

[plam]

Hi ijmorlan! G&M talks about malls specifically not including roofs...

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business...l-anymore/

I guess a question is whether you want to be inside or outside. I mean I don't particularly want to get rained on, and yet. But things like "Toronto Premium Outlets" just seem awful. Maybe if people lived there too.

[ijmorlan]

Thanks for thinking of me! Interesting article. I will say I like the idea of having more activities integrated — the idea of being able to step out of a store and take a break in a park right there is very attractive. I still say that I consider this sort of amenity mostly orthogonal to whether or not there is a roof there, especially if we specify that there might not be walls (porticos/arcades, rather than fully enclosed corridors).

And regardless of how it ends up looking, if they are now actually thinking about pedestrian access more that will be a distinct improvement. There are lots of existing malls which are unpleasant to approach on foot, which of course even the vehicle drivers have to do once they have parked.

[danbrotherston]

Thanks for thinking of me! Interesting article. I will say I like the idea of having more activities integrated — the idea of being able to step out of a store and take a break in a park right there is very attractive. I still say that I consider this sort of amenity mostly orthogonal to whether or not there is a roof there, especially if we specify that there might not be walls (porticos/arcades, rather than fully enclosed corridors).

And regardless of how it ends up looking, if they are now actually thinking about pedestrian access more that will be a distinct improvement. There are lots of existing malls which are unpleasant to approach on foot, which of course even the vehicle drivers have to do once they have parked.

Since I'm feeling anti-establishment today I'll point out also that a big difference between malls and parks is ownership. Malls exist for the exclusive benefit of private property owners, who may choose to open the space to (elements of) the public for their own benefit. Parks exist exclusively to benefit the public.

This is of course all in theory, and in practice there is some blurring. But I think it's an important feature, because in some ways, it probably matters more than whether there is a roof (see for example, the equivalent example of skyways vs. sidewalks).

[ijmorlan]

Since I'm feeling anti-establishment today I'll point out also that a big difference between malls and parks is ownership. Malls exist for the exclusive benefit of private property owners, who may choose to open the space to (elements of) the public for their own benefit. Parks exist exclusively to benefit the public.

This is of course all in theory, and in practice there is some blurring. But I think it's an important feature, because in some ways, it probably matters more than whether there is a roof (see for example, the equivalent example of skyways vs. sidewalks).

Malls could be condominiums, or even city-owned. And a commercial streetfront could have porticos built in to all the buildings. So ownership etc. is really just another orthogonal concern.

[plam]

Since I'm feeling anti-establishment today I'll point out also that a big difference between malls and parks is ownership. Malls exist for the exclusive benefit of private property owners, who may choose to open the space to (elements of) the public for their own benefit. Parks exist exclusively to benefit the public.

That is an important point. You don't actually have free speech rights in a mall, and we should be concerned about a lack of places where we can express our free speech rights.

[panamaniac]

Since I'm feeling anti-establishment today I'll point out also that a big difference between malls and parks is ownership. Malls exist for the exclusive benefit of private property owners, who may choose to open the space to (elements of) the public for their own benefit. Parks exist exclusively to benefit the public.

That is an important point. You don't actually have free speech rights in a mall, and we should be concerned about a lack of places where we can express our free speech rights.

Indeed, Kitchener should have something like a Speaker's Corner ...

[ac3r]

Our Speaker's Corner only ever has a crazy religious person and people nodding out on various opiates in the bushes by The Benton Building. I hate being around there.

[danbrotherston]

That is an important point. You don't actually have free speech rights in a mall, and we should be concerned about a lack of places where we can express our free speech rights.

Indeed, Kitchener should have something like a Speaker's Corner ...

Don't we have a speakers corner at King and Frederick?

[plam]

Indeed, Kitchener should have something like a Speaker's Corner ...

Don't we have a speakers corner at King and Frederick?

I'd be slightly surprised if panamaniac didn't actually know about it...

I think it's more that there needs to be a way for groups to make their voices heard, not individuals. It's hard to do anything as an individual.

[tomh009]

Don't we have a speakers corner at King and Frederick?

I'd be slightly surprised if panamaniac didn't actually know about it...

I think it's more that there needs to be a way for groups to make their voices heard, not individuals. It's hard to do anything as an individual.

I've seen the anti-vaccine horde at Speakers' Corner.

[plam]

I'd be slightly surprised if panamaniac didn't actually know about it...

I think it's more that there needs to be a way for groups to make their voices heard, not individuals. It's hard to do anything as an individual.

I've seen the anti-vaccine horde at Speakers' Corner.

Sigh. Yes. Free speech is important. Misinformation is not great.