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ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Printable Version

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RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - bgb_ca - 06-29-2019

At the king at Fredrick Intection, I've just saw a car blocking the track in the middle of the intersection, and immediately behind them a cop car blocking the crosswalk, while the light was red. I wish the police would actually do their jobs and enforce traffic violations. Wish I had the hindsight to take a picture.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - JoeKW - 06-29-2019

I took my family on the LRT this afternoon and unfortunately, it was a terrible experience. We were lucky to get a seat and the LRT was rather full but manageable... but people kept coming on stop after stop and I started to get protective of my 4 month old (she was in her infant carrier and people were leaning over her). By the time we got to central station it was absolutely jam packed and one girl got on and the doors closed before her mom could get on. Luckily, the doors opened again and the mom/stroller and 2 more kids got on.

We got off at Allen station with some strategic planning and communication and the fact that people are generally co-operative when babies are involved.

I'm glad to see that everyone is so interested in the LRT but this weekend could have benefited from 10 minute intervals...

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Lens - 06-29-2019

Agreed about the jams this afternoon. I rode twice and both time it was packed. I think some folks got left at stations because they didn't want to try their luck getting on. They should increased frequency to meet demand but we'll see how it plays out in the future. Also there was an announcement about which side the train would be departing from at Conestoga and when it arrived it was the opposite, causing everyone to have to walk all the way around to board. I still think the end platforms should have been center boarding.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - tomh009 - 06-29-2019

The trains have a set schedule … I don't expect to see them deviating often from that, even at busy times (and that's even assuming that there is spare equipment available).

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - taylortbb - 06-29-2019

According to Tom Galloway on Twitter they'll be adding more service for the rest of the weekend. https://twitter.com/tomjgalloway14/status/1145118066470281216?s=09

GRT was also posting on Friday that they're adding extra trains to handle the loads from the Canada Day celebrations, but it sounds like from Tom's tweet they're going beyond that.

I think the success of ION is important enough to the region that they're interested in trying to stay on top of demand rather than just setting a schedule once every few months. I feel like the ION launch has really changed attitudes into thinking more like a big city transit system.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Bob_McBob - 06-29-2019

The followup about his concern for September when students are back is interesting. The system only allows for a slight decrease in headway before switching to double trains, so if 8 minutes isn't good enough during rush hour...

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - ijmorlan - 06-29-2019

(06-29-2019, 08:39 PM)Lens Wrote: I still think the end platforms should have been center boarding.

The way the platforms are built is definitely wrong if both platforms will regularly be used for boarding. You will note that all permanent TTC subway terminal stations, past and present, are centre-platform, except for the Yonge part of Sheppard/Yonge where they only use a single platform (side-platform stations Woodbine and Keele were the original terminii of Line 2, but the extensions to centre-platform Islington and Warden started construction as soon as the initial portion of the line opened).

They should have either decided explicitly that one platform is for normal boarding, and the other for taking vehicles out of service; or built centre-platform stations; or built a tail track so the terminal station can operate like a non-terminal station. Given minimum headways of 7/8 minutes, a single platform should be enough — it does not take a full headway to process a vehicle in and back out again. This is not like the subway where you have much longer trains arriving every 2 minutes during rush hour.

Another possibility, which is used by Gold Coast LRT, is to extend one platform over one of the tracks until the extension is built. Then you can board from one platform and exit to the other platform, which can help with the large turnover common at terminal stations.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - jeffster - 06-30-2019

(06-29-2019, 09:42 PM)taylortbb Wrote: According to Tom Galloway on Twitter they'll be adding more service for the rest of the weekend. https://twitter.com/tomjgalloway14/status/1145118066470281216?s=09

GRT was also posting on Friday that they're adding extra trains to handle the loads from the Canada Day celebrations, but it sounds like from Tom's tweet they're going beyond that.

I think the success of ION is important enough to the region that they're interested in trying to stay on top of demand rather than just setting a schedule once every few months. I feel like the ION launch has really changed attitudes into thinking more like a big city transit system.

Do you recall when they were supposed to start two-train service? Wasn't that like 2025? They may have to rethink that if service doesn't die down as much as they anticipated come this summer and/or September (when everyone is back to work and school). I have to wonder when procurement will occur for the new trains.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Bob_McBob - 06-30-2019

(06-30-2019, 12:14 AM)jeffster Wrote: Do you recall when they were supposed to start two-train service? Wasn't that like 2025? They may have to rethink that if service doesn't die down as much as they anticipated come this summer and/or September (when everyone is back to work and school).  I have to wonder when procurement will occur for the new trains.

Timeframe# vehiclespeak headwaymax # double vehicles
2021-2024168 min0
2025-2030207.5 min3
2031-2035237 min6
2036-2040277 min9
2041-2045307 min12
2046-2047337 minall


RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - taylortbb - 06-30-2019

I wouldn't read too much into the original agreement proposed schedules. Those schedules also said evening headways of 30 minutes, and service winding down at 11pm, even in 2046. We're already at service past midnight with 15 minute headways right until the end. Those tables were drawn up by people in the rapid transit team that had never talked to GRT, and probably based it on American LRT systems with much lower ridership. GRT was already providing every 15 minute service past midnight on route 7.

If current service leads to overcrowding I suspect we'll see frequency increases for a while before we see train coupling. The fact schedules are now managed by GRT is a big part of that, but the infrastructure also isn't fully built for two car trains. The concrete platforms are there, but the canopies, arrival displays, door markers, etc aren't there. It could be built, but I think it creates just enough friction for two car trains.

I also suspect that rush hour won't be the limiting factor. Rather, early evening and Saturdays, where they currently have 15 minute headways, is IMO where we'll see the first overcrowding. Because we don't have a big CBD I think the system will get lots of recreational, rather than commuter, use in the first several years.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Bob_McBob - 06-30-2019

Yep, there are already significant deviations from the baseline plan, which makes me wonder if we'll get double trains sooner than 2025-2030. We'll obviously have a much better idea of how limiting the current capacity is after Canada Day. 15 minute headway has plenty of room for improvement as demand dictates, but if the shorter headway periods are also at capacity, even reducing it to the minimum of 7 minutes isn't going to make that much difference. I still wonder what Galloway is thinking about for September.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - taylortbb - 06-30-2019

(06-30-2019, 12:53 AM)Bob_McBob Wrote: Yep, there are already significant deviations from the baseline plan, which makes me wonder if we'll get double trains sooner than 2025-2030. We'll obviously have a much better idea of how limiting the current capacity is after Canada Day. 15 minute headway has plenty of room for improvement as demand dictates, but if the shorter headway periods are also at capacity, even reducing it to the minimum of 7 minutes isn't going to make that much difference. I still wonder what Galloway is thinking about for September.

The system specs say that everything has to support double trains at 5 minute headways. The baseline plans might not ever get to those headways, but I see no reason we can't do it. If ION is really as well received as it appears to be I suspect the political will for it will be there, especially as they continue to get the signalling system tightened up (and running with ATP).

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - jeffster - 06-30-2019

For those that haven't been on the LRT, like myself, I found this on youtube, and it's a great FPP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-GmX89Bc9s

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - KevinL - 06-30-2019

ijmorlan Wrote:
Lens Wrote:I still think the end platforms should have been center boarding.

The way the platforms are built is definitely wrong if both platforms will regularly be used for boarding. You will note that all permanent TTC subway terminal stations, past and present, are centre-platform, except for the Yonge part of Sheppard/Yonge where they only use a single platform (side-platform stations Woodbine and Keele were the original terminii of Line 2, but the extensions to centre-platform Islington and Warden started construction as soon as the initial portion of the line opened).

They were restricted by the geometry of the site in each case, particularly at Conestoga. A centre platform would mean the tracks are farther apart, and thus the leading crossover has to be longer in turn. They couldn't fit this into the property and architecture they had to work with.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - danbrotherston - 06-30-2019

(06-30-2019, 10:43 AM)KevinL Wrote:
ijmorlan Wrote:The way the platforms are built is definitely wrong if both platforms will regularly be used for boarding. You will note that all permanent TTC subway terminal stations, past and present, are centre-platform, except for the Yonge part of Sheppard/Yonge where they only use a single platform (side-platform stations Woodbine and Keele were the original terminii of Line 2, but the extensions to centre-platform Islington and Warden started construction as soon as the initial portion of the line opened).

They were restricted by the geometry of the site in each case, particularly at Conestoga. A centre platform would mean the tracks are farther apart, and thus the leading crossover has to be longer in turn. They couldn't fit this into the property and architecture they had to work with.

I am sure there were trade offs to be made for all stations on the line. The frustrating thing is that passenger convenience and access seem to be a very low priority compared with cost, and motorist convenience when hard choices had to be made.

Hopefully some of these can be fixed over time but central platforms isn't likely one of them.