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ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Printable Version

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RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - danbrotherston - 02-16-2018

Does anyone know which track the train will be going on through downtown? I'm off early this afternoon, and I'm wondering where to camp out.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - robdrimmie - 02-16-2018

(02-16-2018, 03:05 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Does anyone know which track the train will be going on through downtown?  I'm off early this afternoon, and I'm wondering where to camp out.

I was walking along Francis between King and Duke around 12:30, and there was a small (car-sized), construction yellow rail vehicle with two people in seats, being followed by a skid steer or other sort of tiny bulldozer with another couple of workers that was clearing snow very meticulously. My assumption from seeing this is that it will be going on the Duke St. tracks, so perhaps today will be the first full loop of the line?

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - ijmorlan - 02-16-2018

(02-16-2018, 02:51 PM)urbd Wrote:
(02-16-2018, 02:40 PM)KevinL Wrote: Then why is there a tactile plate? A grade down to it from the platform? Platform signs indicating it's a way out?

hehehe i'm chuckling a bit :p

remember, bad design can be dangerous, even fatal... however, you can cross wherever you want as long as you are sure that you are safe, but some people will always stick to the rules and will never jaywalk for example, even if it's perfectly safe to do so.

It just occurred to me that, since mid-block crossings are legal (right? somebody please correct me if I’m confused), the location is a legal crossing location (probably). It’s just a weird combination of built to indicate an intended crossing (on one side) and not built to indicate such (the other side, and the curb in the middle).

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - danbrotherston - 02-16-2018

(02-16-2018, 03:17 PM)ijmorlan Wrote:
(02-16-2018, 02:51 PM)urbd Wrote: hehehe i'm chuckling a bit :p

remember, bad design can be dangerous, even fatal... however, you can cross wherever you want as long as you are sure that you are safe, but some people will always stick to the rules and will never jaywalk for example, even if it's perfectly safe to do so.

It just occurred to me that, since mid-block crossings are legal (right? somebody please correct me if I’m confused), the location is a legal crossing location (probably). It’s just a weird combination of built to indicate an intended crossing (on one side) and not built to indicate such (the other side, and the curb in the middle).

Legal, yes, accessible no, confusing, absolutely.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 02-16-2018

We’ve been through this already. Borden and Kitchener Market also have “extra” tactile plates at the “wrong” ends.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - ijmorlan - 02-16-2018

(02-16-2018, 04:22 PM)Canard Wrote: We’ve been through this already. Borden and Kitchener Market also have “extra” tactile plates at the “wrong” ends.

I’m not sure what you’re saying. I think what people are pointing out is that the intent is unclear. Presence of a tactile plate unambiguously marks one end of a sanctioned crossing. Absence of a curb cut on the other side, absence of zebra stripes, and presence of a curb in the middle suggests not a sanctioned crossing. General design principles dictate that almost all LRT stations, certainly including this one, should be accessible from both ends, which again suggests there should be a sanctioned crossing.

For those who don’t require accessibility accommodation, it’s not a big deal because we can just step over the curbs and make a mid-block crossing, and we can see what is going on. For others, it’s a confusing and potentially dangerous mess.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 02-16-2018

503 left Fairway about 45 minutes ago. Hard to follow! 15 km/h doesn’t seem fast but even in a car it’s almost impossible. Likely passing through Mill right about now. Signal guy is poised at Ottawa so they’re likely coming up the Ottawa way (not Borden).

About to pass through Kitchener Market station.

Curve onto Frederick!

...and onto Duke!

That's it for me today.  I was so glad to have been able to catch it just as it was leaving Fairway!  I totally didn't expect to see it at all today when I left the office.  It left Fairway about 5 minutes after I arrived.  Beautiful day.  It's really hard to follow, even though it's only moving at 15 km/h.  In a car, the challenge is traffic and lights and finding a place to pull over, etc.  On a bike, it's almost just as hard, because of pedestrians, traffic signals, etc. (Waterloo Park reconstruction)... Once they ramp up the speeds, it'll be nearly impossible to chase a single LRV.



If you’re wondering: yes, the LRV is coming back up North along the Southbound tracks. That’s because there was track equipment parked on the Northbound tracks on the Huron Spur. They used the Mill crossover to switch back to the NB tracks. So, the segment of NB track between Mill and Fairway remain the only sections of the entire route not yet passed over.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - tvot - 02-17-2018

We need a GPS tracker on the trains so I can set a proximity alert on my phone. I work near enough to the Mill Street Station but I don't have a clear view of the station so I can't keep a look out for it.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Pheidippides - 02-17-2018

Strange that Councillor Galloway is claiming the rate limiting factor for start of revenue service is Bombardier when it has been said from other sources (and himself I think) that it is the region that is requesting that the LRVs be held in Kingston:



As for the odd curb alignments at Frederick and Willis stations. Those were pointed out long ago (back when TriTag did that survey of Ion fixes - what ever happened to that data anyway?).

It does seem like an oversight given that it is pretty explicit in the Project Agreement:
(viii) Frederick Street
A. Urban context considerations: Urban environment. Civic centre, downtown Kitchener.
B. Stop Design requirements:
Integration with sidewalks, crosswalks and consideration of pedestrian flow to Stop required. 

A side note the station naming in this particular document of the project agreement is a bit confusing. The "special stop" named "Waterloo Town square" seems to have its design elements swapped with the "other LRT stop" named "Willis Way".

"(viii) Provide convenient and accessible Rapid Transit (RT) Stops: ...incorporating safety, ... and convenience for system users"

"(iv) Make transit safe, secure, friendly, fun and accessible to all, including users with disabilities."

"(i) Provide a safe, efficient, barrier free accessible and convenient LRT Stop configuration that facilitates the movement of passengers within the LRT Stop and from one transit mode to another."

Note the use of the plural approaches:
"(d) Accessibility
(i) The application of design guidelines and criteria, standards and practices must accommodate the needs of persons with physical, sensory, and mental disabilities.
(ii) LRT Stops, and their approaches, must facilitate the barrier-free movement of passengers to and from the LRV and other transportation modes in the most convenient and cost effective manner possible.
(iii) Project Co should be proactive in the application of barrier-free standards to address the accessibility concerns of persons with physical, sensory and mental disabilities and not wait for changes to the Building Codes.
(iv) LRT Stops are to comply with all aspects of accessibility requirements for the disabled, including:
A. Provision of ramps or sloped walkways as required; 
B. Provision of adequately sized openings in areas such as platform shelters for wheelchair access and egress;
C. Provision of handrails as required, of proper design, diameter and height requirements;
D. Provision of features necessary for use by the sight and hearing impaired."

14.7 Site Access & Egress
(a) Pedestrian
(i) Good pedestrian circulation to, from, and across platforms is essential for the smooth and safe operation of LRT stops. Circulation patterns should be as simple, obvious, and comfortable as possible. Some of the points that warrant careful review for applicability and consideration in achieving good pedestrian orientation and circulation follow:
A. Avoid unnecessary turns and dead ends.
B. Pedestrian access and circulation shall provide direct, convenient, safe and delineated approaches to/from platforms and bus loading areas
...
L. Discourage pedestrian crossing of LRT tracks.
...
N. Passenger circulation routes should be direct. Disorientating dead-ends and unnecessary turns, blind corners, unnecessary barriers, bottlenecks and areas of congestion should be avoided. 

(xii) If secondary access or exit points are provided, they should be clearly visible, inviting and safe.
(xiii) Barriers should be designed to discourage, not prevent, patrons from crossing the tracks and should not trap anyone between the barrier, LRV or vehicular traffic.
(xiv) Clear and unobstructed pedestrian access across platforms should be provided wherever modal interchange occurs. 


(e) Central Platforms
(i) Central platforms to have access off the pedestrian cross walks as indicated in Appendix L.2. Refer to Appendix L.1 and L.2 for exceptions.

Based on the original drawings in looks like Willis is definitely not as orignally planned, but, rightly or wrongly Frederick seems to conform to the original plan.



Although there is also this line which is probably enough legal wiggle room, but works exactly counter to all of the above design principles:
"B. At least one barrier-free entrance at every stop "

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - KevinL - 02-17-2018

Every station has at least one way in that ticks all those boxes - nothing there indicates there must always be more than one. (Particularly, neither Mill nor Northfield seem capable of more than one.)

The approaches we're talking about seem to be Grandlinq's acknowledgement that people will want to get to stations like Frederick, Kitchener Market, and Borden from the non-primary direction and give another method of access. It just seems to be built strangely given tactile strips on the station side of the crossings but nothing on the curb side.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Bob_McBob - 02-17-2018

(02-11-2018, 12:28 AM)Bob_McBob Wrote:
(02-10-2018, 11:45 AM)Canard Wrote: From the sounds of things, the curve at Northfield and the Spur is the latest casualty for gauge rework. Unbelievable.

I drove past there around 3:30pm and there were several workers going at it with a tent and blowers, and a huge row of traffic cones restricting part of the right lane. On my way home at 10pm the equipment was all still there. Hopefully they will be done by Monday or the traffic won't be fun.

A week later and everything is still there. The heater, the tent, the mass of lane restricting traffic cones. How big a repair job is this?

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 02-17-2018

Borden/Charles was about 3 weeks, and about 60° of the 90° of the outboard rail concrete was removed.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Square - 02-17-2018

The Region road closures states that section of construction is ongoing till Monday, February 26th. @Canard, thank you for the info about the equipment blocking the northbound route from Fairway to Mill. I heard on the radio that they were going back North using the Southbound track and wondered why.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Pheidippides - 02-17-2018

(02-17-2018, 05:04 PM)KevinL Wrote: Every station has at least one way in that ticks all those boxes - nothing there indicates there must always be more than one. (Particularly, neither Mill nor Northfield seem capable of more than one.)

The approaches we're talking about seem to be Grandlinq's acknowledgement that people will want to get to stations like Frederick, Kitchener Market, and Borden from the non-primary direction and give another method of access. It just seems to be built strangely given tactile strips on the station side of the crossings but nothing on the curb side.

After doing a bit more reading I now think the the approaches we are talking about, either by design or in error, are probably considered emergency exits:
(viii) Provide clear emergency exiting from platforms.
(xi) Exits shall provide safe exiting from trains and platforms under normal operational and emergency conditions. Platforms and exits shall allow passengers to completely clear the platform prior to the arrival of the next train. 


Based on the final configuration at Frederick and Duke it looks like they could have extended a sidewalk boulevard/platform right to Duke had they not placed the utility boxes on the south side in such an awkward place. The sidewalk jogs south, the road jogs north. Had the road just gone straight there would be 1.0-1.5m available to use the middle of the road to combine with they >1m curb boulevard the did managed to fit in the middle.


Also, here is weird statement I came across in my reading today:
"Platforms to be a fare paid zone."

Surely that is a mistake or won't actually be enforced? Are the really expecting someone, for example, out for a walk along the west side of Charles between Water and Gaukel or Queen and Benton to cross the street mid-block to avoid being on the Victoria Park or Queen St platforms without a ticket?

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - KevinL - 02-18-2018

I guess if you're clearly waiting for a train on one of those platforms you can expect a fare inspection. So no loitering or using station benches unless you've tapped in!