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ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Printable Version

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RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - BuildingScout - 04-21-2015

(04-21-2015, 12:21 PM)Canard Wrote: Looks like the Mississauga LRT got full provincial funding this morning. Hopefully we'll get the same for ion Phase II!

No, no, Phase II will never happen. Doug Craig said so.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - panamaniac - 04-21-2015

(04-21-2015, 12:21 PM)Canard Wrote: Looks like the Mississauga LRT got full provincial funding this morning. Hopefully we'll get the same for ion Phase II!

Not a chance. 

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - ookpik - 04-21-2015

(04-21-2015, 12:28 PM)BuildingScout Wrote: No, no, Phase II will never happen. Doug Craig said so.
And Doug Craig is no Hazel McCallion.

[Yes I know she retired late last year. But she is considered a Liberal who endorsed and supported Kathleen Wynne for party leadership and then reelection.]

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 04-21-2015

Quote:Not a chance.

Can you explain your position? I would have thought this bodes very well for us.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - MidTowner - 04-21-2015

We've only seen 100% provincial funding for transit projects in the GTHA so far. Elsewhere, it's been a more traditional split, like with Ion Phase I. The portion of the "Moving Ontario Fund" set aside for outside of the GTHA is for infrastructure generally, so presumably there will be more competition among projects. Waterloo Region was willing to pay for a portion of Ion Phase I (appropriately, as far as I see it), so why would the provincial government offer a more generous funding split for Phase II?

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - panamaniac - 04-21-2015

(04-21-2015, 02:11 PM)Canard Wrote:
Quote:Not a chance.

Can you explain your position? I would have thought this bodes very well for us.

Money spent on "A" leaves less money available to be spent on "B".   That plus my belief that ion Phase II can not be justified economically - the Province will want to achieve the most bang for its transit funding buck, and that is not Phase II.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Drake - 04-21-2015

This train should have been built from Ainslie St to Victoria St station as phase 1. Cambridge needs that kind of infrastructure more than KW.

If I lived in Cambridge I would revolt with the intention of leaving this region.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 04-21-2015

Have to start somewhere, Drake. It would have been great to have a 3-line system right off the bat, too, but it just doesn't make sense right now. I think the region was pretty careful in spending 10+ years thinking about this and gauging where it would be best to build it.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Pheidippides - 04-21-2015

Plus, "The price tag, when added to a $13.5-billion GO rail expansion announced last week, means that almost all of the $16-billion earmarked for transit over the next decade is spoken for."
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/ontario-to-foot-full-16-billion-bill-for-light-rail-line/article24042267/

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - YKF - 04-21-2015

Mind you, we're outside of the GTHA and would therefore draw any finances from the non-GTHA pot of $$. Infrastructure money for us is not spoken for, thankfully.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - zanate - 04-22-2015

(04-21-2015, 05:29 PM)Drake Wrote: This train should have been built from Ainslie St to Victoria St station as phase 1. Cambridge needs that kind of infrastructure more than KW.

If I lived in Cambridge I would revolt with the intention of leaving this region.

The first statement isn't really born out by the ridership figures. (70% of iXpress ridership being north of Fairview Park Mall, and heaviest in the Waterloo to downtown Kitchener area.) And Craig's statement in the Record that Outhit so eagerly quoted ("I'm concerned about empty trains running up and down Cambridge") reveals his own opinion that the ridership figures don't warrant LRT in Cambridge (though he didn't think they warranted it in KW either.)

Like others said, you have to start somewhere. You can't talk about "need" without focusing on potential. The potential for LRT to shift drivers to passengers, and to focus development intensification, is highest along the KW portion of the central transit corridor.

Ironically, this is now the challenge Waterloo region faces as a whole with the rest of the province: where is the need and potential the highest for the upper levels to invest in, and how does WR get a seat at the table? Our region was quick out of the gate with a sound strategy, plan, and funding model. If Mississauga or Hamilton or Ottawa had been quicker, or more welcoming of higher-order transit, we may have found it harder to secure funding (even at the 2/3 level.) Now they have woken up, and so has London, and so is the elephant in the room, whose needs dwarf the rest of the province put together: Toronto.

Our edge, however, is that we'll have a line up and running years before anyone else, and we'll still probably have a plan ready for Phase II before some of these cities get moving. If Phase I shows itself to be successful, I think Phase II will be viable as a project with less uncertainty and risk, and able to duke it out for funding against the needs of these other cities.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Markster - 04-22-2015

I posted this over on Urban Toronto, but I thought it might be nice to have here too.

A bit of a timeline for ION, that can be compared to other cities' current status:

Quote:2005 - Consultations begin for Waterloo Region rapid transit
2009 - Council approves LRT, subject to additional funding from the Province and Feds
2010 - Province and Feds announce funding support ($300M and ~$253M respectively)
2011 - Post-election Council re-votes for LRT
2012 Feb - Design-Build-Finance-Maintain-Operate bundled contract is selected as method of procurement
2012 May - EA completed
2012 Oct - Request For Qualifications (RFQ) solicited
2013 May - Request For Proposals (RFP) issued to the three qualified bidding consortiums.
2014 Jan - Bids revealed
2014 Mar - Winning bid selected
2014 Aug - Groundbreaking on Maintenance and Storage facility.
2014 Oct - Election is fought with anti-LRT candidates threatening to pull the plug, but thankfully, most of them lose.

Sources:
http://www.therecord.com/news-story/4390810-light-rail-transit-timeline/
http://rapidtransit.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/projectinformation/history.asp

Hurontario is the most advanced suburban-GTA project, and it's only where we were 4 years ago. Hamilton is >5 years behind us, and London is even more than that.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Drake - 04-22-2015

Well forgive my bluster. I didn't anticipate being quoted over my knee jerk response. It is really moot at this point, but I question the ridership stats. I think this kind of infrastructure should be built where there is a need now, not necessarily where we hope need will be. Governments are very poor at gauging this kind of thing.

I see the south end of Cambridge as a backwater. Galt is beautiful and I would be happy to live down there, but the road system to get out of there and travel elsewhere in the region are limited in choice and poor for efficiency. KW already has an expressway. I have seen plans for the expressway that was to be built in Cambridge and for whatever reason that was nixed. Now the LRT looks to follow suit. If you live in Cambridge and commute East to work I guess it makes sense. If you are heading into KW I think there are better options, or there was for me anyhow. I am certainly not the yardstick to measure others by.

I mention these thoughts for discussion only. The revolt comment was hyperbole, but I do think Cambridge needs help in this region and occasionally from itself.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - mpd618 - 04-22-2015

(04-22-2015, 07:13 PM)Drake Wrote: I have seen plans for the expressway that was to be built in Cambridge and for whatever reason that was nixed. Now the LRT looks to follow suit.

No, it doesn't. The project assessment for Phase 2 is underway and the Region will be (is?) fighting to get upper level funding for it. The only question in my mind is how soon it will be built, and whether there is a chance it is funded before Phase 1 is even running.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - DHLawrence - 04-22-2015

The Highway 8 bypass was nixed because it was going to run through irreplaceable wetlands, now part of Cruickston Park/RARE.

I expect funding will be delayed until at least a couple of years after Phase I is finished, unless either higher level of government gets really desperate for votes.