+- Waterloo Region Connected (https://www.waterlooregionconnected.com)
+-- Forum: Land Development and Real Estate (https://www.waterlooregionconnected.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: Urban Areas (https://www.waterlooregionconnected.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=5)
+--- Thread: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours (/showthread.php?tid=8)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
279
280
281
282
283
284
285
286
287
288
289
290
291
292
293
294
295
296
297
298
299
300
301
302
303
304
305
306
307
308
309
310
311
312
313
314
315
316
317
318
319
320
321
322
323
324
325
326
327
328
329
330
331
332
333
334
335
336
337
338
339
340
341
342
343
344
345
346
347
348
349
350
351
352
353
354
355
356
357
358
359
360
361
362
363
364
365
366
367
368
369
370
371
372
373
374
375
376
377
378
379
380
381
382
383
384
385
386
387
388
389
390
391
392
393
394
395
396
397
398
399
400
401
RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - danbrotherston - 07-14-2024
(07-14-2024, 12:03 PM)taylortbb Wrote:(07-14-2024, 01:56 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: This is like saying that the "free gift you get with your purchase" is a free gift...
No...it's just part of the purchase. If these were allocated to the condo corporation by the developer, it would simply increase the value of the properties. And the developer would be motivated to do this because it would transfer risk to the condo corporation (for example, the risk that they would be unable to lease these units).
"It would simply increase the value of the properties" sounds a lot like the efficient market hypothesis, which I'm really skeptical of in the residential real estate market. People are terrible at accounting for the costs of their purchases. People can't even account for the cost of gas, nevermind the cost of their time, from purchasing homes at the far edges of suburbia. They're not going to account for the value of a commercial unit's rent to offset their condo fees.
Selling the commercial unit(s) as a separate unit would almost certainly have far better returns for the developer than hoping that the promise of a condo fee offset in the future would adequately raise the sale price of all the residential units.
So yes, forgoing the higher return of selling the commercial unit as it's own condo unit, and instead taking the lower return of bundling it in for the residential purchasers, would absolutely be a huge gift to the residential purchasers.
(07-14-2024, 08:36 AM)tomh009 Wrote: Most condo developers do not want to retain ownership of the units and lease them out as they are not in the real estate leasing business.
I agree, and I never suggested they would. It's almost certainly just another unit of the condo, which was sold to a commercial landlord.
If the condo corporation owned the unit, the projected income of the unit would count as income for the condo corporation. It would directly impact the condo fees charged. This isn't some hidden number, or some hypothetical future number, it's a real (as in realised) savings today.
Selling the units as a separate unit, I have no idea how or even if this works under the legislative framework for condo corporations in Ontario.
RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - creative - 07-14-2024
https://torontorealtyblog.com/blog/commercialretail-condo-space/
RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - taylortbb - 07-14-2024
(07-14-2024, 01:04 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: If the condo corporation owned the unit, the projected income of the unit would count as income for the condo corporation. It would directly impact the condo fees charged. This isn't some hidden number, or some hypothetical future number, it's a real (as in realised) savings today.
For an already built condo the condo fees affect resale value, but for a developer pre-selling a condo the projected fees do not have a large impact. No one believes the condo fee projections to begin with, and even if they did many pre-build units are sold to people that will never take possession and just do an assignment sale before close. You say "This isn't some hidden number, or some hypothetical future number" but for pre-construction sales (which is all the developer cares about, they don't get paid for resale value) it is exactly that, a hypothetical future number.
In any case, if this building really was setup that way, with the commercial rent offsetting the condo fees, wouldn't the developer have marketed it that way? Surely they'd be shouting it from the rooftops. This whole idea of the developer capturing the value of the commercial unit through increased residential sale prices depends upon people knowing about it, and being willing to pay more upfront for their condo as a result. If no one here heard about it then the developer definitely failed to capture that value, and it's once again a gift to the purchasers.
(07-14-2024, 01:04 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Selling the units as a separate unit, I have no idea how or even if this works under the legislative framework for condo corporations in Ontario.
It works just fine, lots of other condos in KW are setup this way. For example, Charlie West has 4 commercial units alongside the 305 residential units (and other special units, like the parking unit and the rooftop unit).
RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - creative - 07-14-2024
(07-14-2024, 04:30 PM)creative Wrote: https://torontorealtyblog.com/blog/commercialretail-condo-space/
This explains it all. No speculation required!
RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - taylortbb - 07-14-2024
(07-14-2024, 05:48 PM)creative Wrote:(07-14-2024, 04:30 PM)creative Wrote: https://torontorealtyblog.com/blog/commercialretail-condo-space/
This explains it all. No speculation required!
It confirms that commercial spaces as a commercial unit is common, but it doesn't prove anything for certain about this particular building. So, there's still some speculation. But yes, it certainly is good supporting info.
RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - tomh009 - 07-29-2024
The last two houses on the left on Margaret as one approaches Victoria from the Centre in the Square (across the street from the new Vive building) sure do look unoccupied and unmaintained. The open GIS database did not reveal any ownership information, but one does wonder whether there will be a development project there as well.
RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - Lebronj23 - 08-08-2024
20 stories proposed at 330 mill street
https://app2.kitchener.ca/AppDocs/OpenData/AMANDADataSets/718957_2303-328MillSt-Rendering-ViewfromEast.pdf
RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - ZEBuilder - 08-08-2024
(08-08-2024, 11:12 AM)Lebronj23 Wrote: 20 stories proposed at 330 mill street
https://app2.kitchener.ca/AppDocs/OpenData/AMANDADataSets/718957_2303-328MillSt-Rendering-ViewfromEast.pdf
I made a thread for that already,
https://www.waterlooregionconnected.com/showthread.php?pid=115738
RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - Acitta - 09-02-2024
This story by Andrew Chang starts off with a bankrupt Kitchener project.
We’re in a housing crisis. Why are so many builds going bust? | About That
RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - Momo26 - 09-04-2024
Question for you architects and arm chair quarter back architects...
Would you prefer a building like this to anything that has popped up in DTK (or Waterloo as well for that matter)?
https://www.blogto.com/real-estate-toronto/2024/09/2-tippett-road-toronto/
RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - westwardloo - 09-05-2024
(09-04-2024, 10:46 PM)Momo26 Wrote: Question for you architects and arm chair quarter back architects...100%! they don't all have to look like this, but having a couple uniquely designed buildings sprinkled in to break up the precast/ EIFS mess that is DTK and waterloo would be nice. Honestly they don't even need to look like this, we need developers to spend maybe 5-10% more on design and we can have nice look buildings using the same materials. Unfortunately, our region has a race to the bottom for developers in terms of costs and they already started pretty low. Most nice proposals end up stalled or cancelled in our region, but if it involves black, white and grey precast you know it will be built.
Would you prefer a building like this to anything that has popped up in DTK (or Waterloo as well for that matter)?
https://www.blogto.com/real-estate-toronto/2024/09/2-tippett-road-toronto/
On a side note, as lovely as this building is, the location beside the highway is going to age that white concrete pretty quick. Love that they have rails instead of glass for the guardrails, would love to see that utilized in the region.
RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - ac3r - 09-07-2024
(09-04-2024, 10:46 PM)Momo26 Wrote: Question for you architects and arm chair quarter back architects...
Would you prefer a building like this to anything that has popped up in DTK (or Waterloo as well for that matter)?
https://www.blogto.com/real-estate-toronto/2024/09/2-tippett-road-toronto/
Absolutely. It's highly unlikely we'd ever see anything like that here for a long, long time. This region isn't important enough to attract any developer willing to put the money into a nice design.
RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - CP42 - 09-07-2024
Progress on UW Innovation Arena, TEK Tower, and slightly Station Park DUO:
![[Image: fEmHQ6l.jpeg]](https://i.imgur.com/fEmHQ6l.jpeg)
![[Image: bxURhyK.jpeg]](https://i.imgur.com/bxURhyK.jpeg)
RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - mastermind - 09-07-2024
This picture reminds me, does anyone know what's up with that unkept green space behind the UW building parking lot? It's a fairly large space that you really notice when you walk the path from King St toward the new google garage.
RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - danbrotherston - 09-08-2024
(09-07-2024, 09:34 PM)mastermind Wrote: This picture reminds me, does anyone know what's up with that unkept green space behind the UW building parking lot? It's a fairly large space that you really notice when you walk the path from King St toward the new google garage.
The space along the tracks? If it's the space I'm thinking of, it's got significant industrial contamination, the remediation would cost more than the land is worth, hence the land is absolutely worthless now. Even putting a trail on the land was difficult because the city had to get permission to develop on the contaminated site without remediating it. It was only allowed because trail users weren't "lingering" basically, it's fine if you just pass through, but you cannot inhabit that space.