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ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Printable Version

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RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - ijmorlan - 09-26-2016

Erb/Caroline looks very nice now, but the fact that the channelized right-turn is only a single lane is a major screw-up. Two lanes should take the corner to avoid creating a bottleneck. There is a route all the way across the city and beyond consisting of Bridgeport and Erb which has at least two lanes in each direction, except for westbound at the corner of Erb and Caroline where it is constricted to a single lane. Not smart.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Markster - 09-26-2016

(09-26-2016, 12:29 PM)ijmorlan Wrote: Erb/Caroline looks very nice now, but the fact that the channelized right-turn is only a single lane is a major screw-up. Two lanes should take the corner to avoid creating a bottleneck. There is a route all the way across the city and beyond consisting of Bridgeport and Erb which has at least two lanes in each direction, except for westbound at the corner of Erb and Caroline where it is constricted to a single lane. Not smart.

Well, nothing is stopping you from turning right from Caroline's through lane!

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Viewfromthe42 - 09-26-2016

It's actually quite smart. One of the biggest bottlenecks at Caroline and Erb is that when north/south traffic has a green light, you can be either south/northbound on Caroline and wanting to turn westbound onto Erb. The drivers from each are notorious for wide turns, meaning instead of a steady stream going into each lane from each direction, you have a situation where a driver turning NB-WB puts a scare into the driver trying to turn SB-WB, and they will hesitate, and it goes back and forth with hesitations from drivers both NB and SB on Caroline. SB drivers had to look south across erb for pedestrians, then south across erb for cars, then east across Caroline for pedestrians, and then to their right to the sidewalk for more pedestrians. Now, they only have to look left and right for pedestrians, creating a much easier information flow without overloading their observational responsibilities.

Time will tell, but as long as drivers aren't trying to force illegal wide turns into this situation, I think it will actually be much easier.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - zanate - 09-26-2016

A double right lane would require signalized operation. That means no right turns on red, possibly an extra phase in the mix, and stoppages for pedestrians crossing. Makes me wonder how many more vehicles it could reasonably get through here over one lane, and whether it would worsen the rest of the intersection's performance.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 09-26-2016

I forgot to mention, this morning I followed a KW Glass truck with station canopy panels south down Albert, onto Bridgeport, then it turned right onto Erb. I was turning left, so I didn't see where it ended up, but my guess is the Willis Way stop.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - timc - 09-26-2016

(09-26-2016, 12:44 PM)zanate Wrote: A double right lane would require signalized operation. That means no right turns on red, possibly an extra phase in the mix, and stoppages for pedestrians crossing. Makes me wonder how many more vehicles it could reasonably get through here over one lane, and whether it would worsen the rest of the intersection's performance.

Ah, forget it. They should have just built a big roundabout. /s

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - zanate - 09-26-2016

(09-26-2016, 01:46 PM)timc Wrote: Ah, forget it. They should have just built a big roundabout. /s

Let's do it!

[Image: 763854579584707b48221c280eb5e5ab.jpg]

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - timc - 09-26-2016

I would really love to rescind my /s based on the beauty of that photograph, but I can't see anything like that working around here. Would you even be allowed to have a freight train running across a roundabout in Canada?

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - ijmorlan - 09-26-2016

(09-26-2016, 12:31 PM)Markster Wrote:
(09-26-2016, 12:29 PM)ijmorlan Wrote: Erb/Caroline looks very nice now, but the fact that the channelized right-turn is only a single lane is a major screw-up. Two lanes should take the corner to avoid creating a bottleneck. There is a route all the way across the city and beyond consisting of Bridgeport and Erb which has at least two lanes in each direction, except for westbound at the corner of Erb and Caroline where it is constricted to a single lane. Not smart.

Well, nothing is stopping you from turning right from Caroline's through lane!

True enough! I’ll be interested to see how long it is before they put up signs explicitly disallowing that.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - ijmorlan - 09-26-2016

(09-26-2016, 12:35 PM)Viewfromthe42 Wrote: It's actually quite smart. One of the biggest bottlenecks at Caroline and Erb is that when north/south traffic has a green light, you can be either south/northbound on Caroline and wanting to turn westbound onto Erb. The drivers from each are notorious for wide turns, meaning instead of a steady stream going into each lane from each direction, you have a situation where a driver turning NB-WB puts a scare into the driver trying to turn SB-WB, and they will hesitate, and it goes back and forth with hesitations from drivers both NB and SB on Caroline. SB drivers had to look south across erb for pedestrians, then south across erb for cars, then east across Caroline for pedestrians, and then to their right to the sidewalk for more pedestrians. Now, they only have to look left and right for pedestrians, creating a much easier information flow without overloading their observational responsibilities.

Time will tell, but as long as drivers aren't trying to force illegal wide turns into this situation, I think it will actually be much easier.

The left-turning traffic you refer to consists only of buses. They could easily have a protected phase. Or, the right turn island could have been larger and the right turn lane further from the actual intersection. Then vehicles, having turned left, could have a yield sign to yield to right-turning traffic. There are doubtless other potential solutions.

Also, you failed to address my fundamental objection to the design, which is that westbound traffic on the single artery that runs in some places on Bridgeport and in some places on Erb is restricted down to a single lane at one single bottleneck even though it has at least two lanes everywhere else. How can that be logical? Only if that intersection were a low point for the traffic on that artery, which hardly seems believable.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - ijmorlan - 09-26-2016

(09-26-2016, 12:44 PM)zanate Wrote: A double right lane would require signalized operation. That means no right turns on red, possibly an extra phase in the mix, and stoppages for pedestrians crossing. Makes me wonder how many more vehicles it could reasonably get through here over one lane, and whether it would worsen the rest of the intersection's performance.

You’re not taking into account the special nature of the specific intersection. The only vehicular traffic that conflicts with the right turn is buses turning left. In addition, there is of course pedestrian traffic crossing the separate lane. So just put a pedestrian signal, and allow right-turning traffic to proceed when Erb St. has its green.

This is not a normal intersection, and thinking that is based on normal intersections is incorrect in this context.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 09-27-2016

Une hausse de taxes ponctuelle pour financer le SRB à Québec? - Translation here

Interesting article from a French publication about our system.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - zanate - 09-27-2016

(09-26-2016, 04:42 PM)ijmorlan Wrote: You’re not taking into account the special nature of the specific intersection. The only vehicular traffic that conflicts with the right turn is buses turning left. In addition, there is of course pedestrian traffic crossing the separate lane. So just put a pedestrian signal, and allow right-turning traffic to proceed when Erb St. has its green.

This is not a normal intersection, and thinking that is based on normal intersections is incorrect in this context.

Good point, I had forgotten about the fact there is no traffic coming from the other direction. You would need three lanes heading westbound, though, for long enough to safely merge with turning traffic from northbound Caroline.

Still, part of the local context is the steady amount of foot traffic crossing this intersection. I wouldn't support turning two of the four crossings of this intersection into a two-stage crossing with separate walk signals. It seems like a poor place to put traffic flow over walkability.

But I agree with you that it could be done.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - jamincan - 09-27-2016

I used to have to make that turn all the time and I suspect the planned channelized right turn will improve the situation enough to eliminate the backup between Erb and Albert that has tended to develop on Bridgeport. While the backup often extends well past Regina, that is in part due to delays at Albert and King. If there is free-flow on Bridgeport after Albert, more people would use the middle lane and merge later, which would then help reduce delays due to right-turning traffic at Albert and King, which is as much a culprit for delays in that stretch as the turn at Bridgeport & Erb is.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Viewfromthe42 - 09-27-2016

It will also be helped by the reformatting of Bridgeport, where from Peppler to Bridgeport, the right lane will only ever be a right-only lane, so whenever you move into it, you will have to get out at the next intersection. This will prevent people lining up in the right lane at Laurel creek to turn onto Erb, as they won't be able to move into the right hand lane until after King or Albert (can't recall).