(06-21-2023, 01:14 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Given that garages can be converted to indoor space, but usually are not, is indicative that this isn't true. People might prefer storage to garage (this is pretty clear) but indoor space conversions are pretty rare.

That being said, space is generally more at a premium in apartments than homes. But as someone who lived in an apartment without a balcony, I can tell you that it was sorely missed. Being able to go outside for a breath of fresh air without going all the way out of the building is a major quality of life improvement on apartment living. I think folks here are under rating it. Just because something is infrequently used does not mean it is not highly valuable.

Also, just because people would make some choice about their living arrangements does not mean it actually maximizes their QoL. How many people commute 2 hours each way to work in the GTA just to own a larger detached home instead of a smaller row house closer in. All data indicates these people are making choices which harm their QoL.

(06-21-2023, 09:49 PM)ijmorlan Wrote: I should clarify that when I mentioned garages, the part that I think is the same is conversion to another use, not specifically turning into another indoor room. For garages I think the actual use of many garages says that many people turn out to really want storage space and bicycle parking rather than an (or an additional) indoor car parking spot. I think those uses could be satisfied much more cheaply than by building an entire garage.

That being said, a garage can be either so there is something to be said for flexibility.

Anyway, my main point is that people buy and rent based on how they think they will use a space, not on how they will actually use it. And developers, quite naturally, build to satisfy people’s buying/renting personalities, not their ordinary living personalities.

(06-21-2023, 09:49 PM)ijmorlan Wrote:

(06-21-2023, 01:14 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Given that garages can be converted to indoor space, but usually are not, is indicative that this isn't true. People might prefer storage to garage (this is pretty clear) but indoor space conversions are pretty rare.

That being said, space is generally more at a premium in apartments than homes. But as someone who lived in an apartment without a balcony, I can tell you that it was sorely missed. Being able to go outside for a breath of fresh air without going all the way out of the building is a major quality of life improvement on apartment living. I think folks here are under rating it. Just because something is infrequently used does not mean it is not highly valuable.

Also, just because people would make some choice about their living arrangements does not mean it actually maximizes their QoL. How many people commute 2 hours each way to work in the GTA just to own a larger detached home instead of a smaller row house closer in. All data indicates these people are making choices which harm their QoL.

I should clarify that when I mentioned garages, the part that I think is the same is conversion to another use, not specifically turning into another indoor room. For garages I think the actual use of many garages says that many people turn out to really want storage space and bicycle parking rather than an (or an additional) indoor car parking spot. I think those uses could be satisfied much more cheaply than by building an entire garage.

That being said, a garage can be either so there is something to be said for flexibility.

Anyway, my main point is that people buy and rent based on how they think they will use a space, not on how they will actually use it. And developers, quite naturally, build to satisfy people’s buying/renting personalities, not their ordinary living personalities.

(06-22-2023, 08:06 PM)plam Wrote: ...

Yes, mostly bicycle storage here. Other storage is mostly inside my place. Sheds are obviously a cheaper alternative to garages but don't really work as well for multi-unit residences (then again, neither are parking garages). Bicycle rooms seem to be a good target for theft.

People buy things all the time based on aspiration (cf SUV purchases).

(06-23-2023, 02:39 AM)dtkvictim Wrote: Somehow the only valid complaint against garages, IMO, hasn't been mentioned yet. And that's how damn ugly they are, usually taking up over half of a house's street presence on anything built in the last 50-60 years.

(06-23-2023, 12:52 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: Lol...I was impressed, multi-residential buildings here all have storage rooms. And they are quite a bit better and more accessible than the storage locker we had in our apartment in Canada (they even have matching keyed locks, where most storage lockers in Canada have a pad lock). Many people do store bikes in them.

As for bike storage, I did see one common bike room, but often people just store their bikes outside the building when they don't use their storage room.

(06-23-2023, 09:21 AM)tomh009 Wrote:

(06-23-2023, 12:52 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: Lol...I was impressed, multi-residential buildings here all have storage rooms. And they are quite a bit better and more accessible than the storage locker we had in our apartment in Canada (they even have matching keyed locks, where most storage lockers in Canada have a pad lock). Many people do store bikes in them.

As for bike storage, I did see one common bike room, but often people just store their bikes outside the building when they don't use their storage room.

In Finland, basically all apartments/condos have storage lockers (yes, with locks that work with your usual key), typically around 1x2m. I have never seen anyone storing bicycles in those, though, usually they are either in the common bike room (requires the key, again), locked outside or in one's own apartment.

In our condo building here in Kitchener, fewer than half the units have storage lockers, and even then those lockers are quite small, about 1x1m.

(06-23-2023, 02:39 AM)dtkvictim Wrote: Somehow the only valid complaint against garages, IMO, hasn't been mentioned yet. And that's how damn ugly they are, usually taking up over half of a house's street presence on anything built in the last 50-60 years.

(06-24-2023, 12:11 PM)kps Wrote: That's due to the ubiquitous bylaws that forbid parking in front of a house except on a driveway leading to a garage. (My ‘garage’ is a woodshop, but I can't replace the garage door with something more appealing because then I could no longer legally use my driveway.)

(06-24-2023, 12:11 PM)kps Wrote:

(06-23-2023, 02:39 AM)dtkvictim Wrote: Somehow the only valid complaint against garages, IMO, hasn't been mentioned yet. And that's how damn ugly they are, usually taking up over half of a house's street presence on anything built in the last 50-60 years.

That's due to the ubiquitous bylaws that forbid parking in front of a house except on a driveway leading to a garage. (My ‘garage’ is a woodshop, but I can't replace the garage door with something more appealing because then I could no longer legally use my driveway.)