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ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Printable Version

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RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - KevinL - 08-14-2016

Even if it is too late to be folded into the project agreement, it does bring the issue to light for the politicians in charge. They failed to account for this need when drawing up the plans, and a good portion of their constituency is unhappy. How they act on that, I can't say, but making them aware is a vital part of the process.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 08-14-2016

(08-14-2016, 09:19 AM)KevinL Wrote: Even if it is too late to be folded into the project agreement, it does bring the issue to light for the politicians in charge. They failed to account for this need when drawing up the plans, and a good portion of their constituency is unhappy. How they act on that, I can't say, but making them aware is a vital part of the process.

Ok - but what about the general public? Why are these folks bringing this up now, then, and not 5 years ago during the public consultation meetings? Did they attend them? Did they submit their comments or concerns? Or did they just not care, and are now kicking up a stink?

It's P3 - nothing can be done now without huge costs or delays to the project. Have to wait until it's done and handed over - then the Region might be able to do something.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 08-14-2016

1/2 - Sunday, August 14, 2016

   
The Conestoga Mall platforms are in, and trackwork is about to extend to the official "start" point of the line!

   

   
The foundation for the operator's building is in.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 08-14-2016

2/2 - Sunday, August 14, 2016

   
The half-completed curve onto King, from Conestoga.

   
Looking back at where the compact, non-standard No. 5 crossover will be installed.

   
Wondering how they tamp and adjust all that tight ballasted trackwork in the OMSF?  Here's how!  It's a baby version of the MK IV.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - KevinL - 08-14-2016

(08-14-2016, 09:32 AM)Canard Wrote:
(08-14-2016, 09:19 AM)KevinL Wrote: Even if it is too late to be folded into the project agreement, it does bring the issue to light for the politicians in charge. They failed to account for this need when drawing up the plans, and a good portion of their constituency is unhappy. How they act on that, I can't say, but making them aware is a vital part of the process.

Ok - but what about the general public?  Why are these folks bringing this up now, then, and not 5 years ago during the public consultation meetings?  Did they attend them?  Did they submit their comments or concerns?  Or did they just not care, and are now kicking up a stink?

It's P3 - nothing can be done now without huge costs or delays to the project.  Have to wait until it's done and handed over - then the Region might be able to do something.

It's certainly true that this would have been better addressed before contracts were signed and construction started. Nonetheless, somehow this was not made enough of an issue at the time - perhaps the residents presumed too much, or there was misinformation about what would be possible or available - and it was not raised then. Simply throwing up our hands and saying 'what's done is done' is not going to help these residents; they deserve a voice, even if it's later than it should have been.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - ijmorlan - 08-14-2016

(08-14-2016, 09:32 AM)Canard Wrote:
(08-14-2016, 09:19 AM)KevinL Wrote: Even if it is too late to be folded into the project agreement, it does bring the issue to light for the politicians in charge. They failed to account for this need when drawing up the plans, and a good portion of their constituency is unhappy. How they act on that, I can't say, but making them aware is a vital part of the process.

Ok - but what about the general public?  Why are these folks bringing this up now, then, and not 5 years ago during the public consultation meetings?  Did they attend them?  Did they submit their comments or concerns?  Or did they just not care, and are now kicking up a stink?

It's P3 - nothing can be done now without huge costs or delays to the project.  Have to wait until it's done and handed over - then the Region might be able to do something.

Five years ago the detailed designs didn’t exist. How were people to know that existing paths were slated to be eliminated? A similar comment applies to many details, such as the utterly unnecessary fences in Waterloo Park. Some opponents of the project complained about it because of the huge fences that would supposedly be needed; supporters did not, to my knowledge, argue that the fences were OK but rather that they weren’t needed. In fact we are getting unnecessarily large fences without any public debate based upon them.

I personally still support the project even with the bad handling of the park, but I don’t think it’s fair to criticize people for not raising every issue years ago at a meeting which didn’t even get to that level of detail. Instead, the technical people associated with the project who actually have knowledge and responsibility for the details should have raised access as an issue and made sure that it was handled appropriately.

We don’t want to get in a situation where supporters of the project implicitly support every decision taken by those in charge, and opponents reflexively oppose every action — every road closure, sign, vehicle choice, and so on. Instead, I am absolutely in favour of the project as a whole, but I think that many many details have been flubbed due to low creativity and an unwillingness to really engage with suggestions from the public. In some cases, as with, apparently, the fences in the park, the fault lies outside of Waterloo Region, of course.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - tomh009 - 08-14-2016

(08-14-2016, 10:45 AM)KevinL Wrote: Simply throwing up our hands and saying 'what's done is done' is not going to help these residents; they deserve a voice, even if it's later than it should have been.

I don't think anyone is proposing to ignore this, but I agree that this should be done outside of the LRT contract.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 08-14-2016

...which means waiting until next year, as I've said - project completion. At any rate, Tom Galloway is bringing it up on Monday, to find out how it all happened.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - tomh009 - 08-14-2016

Another LRT morning walk, this time heading "west."

The steel frame is up for the Victoria Park station wall:
   

A view of the EB embedded track with 1 Victoria in the background:
   

Victoria St construction, not much to see here yet, but the Pharmacy building looks lovely:
   

Rails awaiting deployment on King St, between Victoria and Water:
   

Duke St construction, looking toward City Centre condos:
   

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 08-14-2016

(08-14-2016, 01:22 PM)tomh009 Wrote: Rails awaiting deployment on King St, between Victoria and Water:

Literally!  Big Grin

That shot of the School of Pharmacy is particularly gorgeous!

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - tomh009 - 08-14-2016

Definitely! I hope they are doing some drainage work on this section yet.

Thanks for the kudos, Iain!

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - KevinL - 08-14-2016

(08-14-2016, 11:58 AM)Canard Wrote: ...which means waiting until next year, as I've said - project completion. At any rate, Tom Galloway is bringing it up on Monday, to find out how it all happened.

After project completion but before start of operations should be workable. I hope something gets figured out.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Square - 08-15-2016

It has been over 1 year now, (July 29th actually), since I'm assuming that Borden from Courtland to the Huron Spur received it's first layer? of asphalt.
I wonder when they will put down the second?

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - nms - 08-15-2016

(08-14-2016, 09:32 AM)Canard Wrote:
(08-14-2016, 09:19 AM)KevinL Wrote: Even if it is too late to be folded into the project agreement, it does bring the issue to light for the politicians in charge. They failed to account for this need when drawing up the plans, and a good portion of their constituency is unhappy. How they act on that, I can't say, but making them aware is a vital part of the process.

Ok - but what about the general public?  Why are these folks bringing this up now, then, and not 5 years ago during the public consultation meetings?  Did they attend them?  Did they submit their comments or concerns?  Or did they just not care, and are now kicking up a stink?

It's P3 - nothing can be done now without huge costs or delays to the project.  Have to wait until it's done and handed over - then the Region might be able to do something.

It shouldn't be up to the public to have to list every detail that should be put into the project.  That's what Regional Staff are for.  The Public Consultation Centres were for catching minor issues.  Added to this, there was probably a certain amount of Public Consultation Centre fatigue that kicked in given the protracted nature of the consultation process.

(08-14-2016, 11:10 AM)ijmorlan Wrote: We don’t want to get in a situation where supporters of the project implicitly support every decision taken by those in charge, and opponents reflexively oppose every action — every road closure, sign, vehicle choice, and so on. Instead, I am absolutely in favour of the project as a whole, but I think that many many details have been flubbed due to low creativity and an unwillingness to really engage with suggestions from the public. In some cases, as with, apparently, the fences in the park, the fault lies outside of Waterloo Region, of course.

(08-14-2016, 11:58 AM)Canard Wrote: ...which means waiting until next year, as I've said - project completion. At any rate, Tom Galloway is bringing it up on Monday, to find out how it all happened.

But then after Project Completion and Delivery, all future work is covered by the Operating Agreement.  As well, were we not told from the outset that the whole reason for a P3 and a private operator was because the Region didn't have the expertise to carry out this kind of project?  Unfortunately, the private operator can only work with whatever specifications Regional staff and politicians give them.

On a related note, does anyone know what kind of traffic (pedestrian, cyclist, car) patterns were observed prior to the project construction.  Was any thought given to existing routes across the corridor and how they might be affected after the LRT is in place?  I seem to recall that quite a bit was discussed about car traffic patterns and needs, but I can't recall seeing anything about pedestrians or cyclists.  That's not to say it wasn't done, I just don't know if it exists.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - taylortbb - 08-15-2016

I expect no one studied pedestrian volumes here because officially there are none. Officially the trail has no access to Fairway between Courtland and Wilson. The only accesses that did exist were cut in a fence or were because the property owner chose not to put up fences.

Not that that means there shouldn't be an access, there definitely should IMO, but it explains why it's easy to miss in the process. Studying it would acknowledge it exists, and could cause the region to be required to do something about it (like prevent it).