+- Waterloo Region Connected (https://www.waterlooregionconnected.com)
+-- Forum: Land Development and Real Estate (https://www.waterlooregionconnected.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: Urban Areas (https://www.waterlooregionconnected.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=5)
+--- Thread: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours (/showthread.php?tid=8)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
279
280
281
282
283
284
285
286
287
288
289
290
291
292
293
294
295
296
297
298
299
300
301
302
303
304
305
306
307
308
309
310
311
312
313
314
315
316
317
318
319
320
321
322
323
324
325
326
327
328
329
330
331
332
333
334
335
336
337
338
339
340
341
342
343
344
345
346
347
348
349
350
351
352
353
354
355
356
357
358
359
360
361
362
363
364
365
366
367
368
369
370
371
372
373
374
375
376
377
378
379
380
381
382
383
384
385
386
387
388
389
390
391
392
393
394
395
396
397
398
399
400
401
RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - ac3r - 05-28-2022
(05-28-2022, 11:09 AM)taylortbb Wrote: I think 20 Weber E is pretty full with RoW staff. I think the old WRPS building will be available soon though.
235 King E is owned by Europro, the region is just a tenant. Until TriOS relocated there my understanding is that the upper floors were totally empty, so there's probably lots of space available. Conestoga College is already leasing from Europro for Market Square. I'd think 22 Frederick would be the first expansion choice if we're talking Europro space though, it has a few empty floors and is connected by bridge to Market Square.
Oh yeah, I forgot about 22 Frederick. AFAIK it's actually very empty though which is a plus. I think there are only about 2-3 tenants listed on that sign on the front of the building. It could be a potential site for Conestoga College expansion due to its location. However, I'm not sure the college would find it suitable. It's a tower which aren't ideal for education campuses, especially if they would share the building with office tenants. That would create significant elevator congestion, for example. I imagine that when it comes time for Conestoga College to expand again, they'll pick someplace else as there aren't that many existing buildings downtown that could work.
RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - KevinL - 05-29-2022
Yeah, educational campuses are generally flat and sprawling to handle the foot traffic. Towers are thus not ideal.
RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - tomh009 - 05-29-2022
(05-29-2022, 10:16 AM)KevinL Wrote: Yeah, educational campuses are generally flat and sprawling to handle the foot traffic. Towers are thus not ideal.
Generally, yes, but not always -- and often they are that way because they have lots of land available, so there is no need to use it effectively. There are lots of examples worldwide of campus buildings with 10 storeys and more: they just need to be designed to fit their intended use.
There really isn't anywhere in DTK to build a sprawling campus for 3000+ people (3000 students probably means at least 500 faculty and staff), unless you are proposing to do it in Victoria Park.
RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - ijmorlan - 05-29-2022
(05-29-2022, 10:16 AM)KevinL Wrote: Yeah, educational campuses are generally flat and sprawling to handle the foot traffic. Towers are thus not ideal.
They don’t need to be either. In particular, the spaces between the buildings are in no way needed in order to accommodate foot traffic; indeed, the spaces between the buildings make the walking routes longer. If the buildings are right next to each other, then it becomes easier to provide links between the buildings on multiple levels, which can spread out the traffic between floors and avoid congestion at ground level.
Having everything in one building actually makes a lot of sense for minimizing distances. The only issue I see with a tower is vertical circulation. Depending on how many floors are involved, this could be fixed with stairs and/or escalators.
Returning back to the specific 22 Frederick idea, I suspect vertical circulation would be the problem with that idea. But a single low-rise building (maybe the full-block podium under a taller tower) could work.
RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - plam - 05-29-2022
Concordia University, for instance, is quite a vertical campus. There are isolated towers on other campuses too, but of the universities that I can think of offhand, Concordia is the most tower-y. There are a lot of elevators and escalators.
RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - neonjoe - 05-30-2022
How much of the Old St Mary’s High School campus is owned by the board vs the amount that is part of the downtown community centre? The St Louis campus also has a large parking lot. Could any of these be up for conestoga’s redevelopment
RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - tomh009 - 05-30-2022
(05-30-2022, 06:51 AM)neonjoe Wrote: How much of the Old St Mary’s High School campus is owned by the board vs the amount that is part of the downtown community centre? The St Louis campus also has a large parking lot. Could any of these be up for conestoga’s redevelopment
The two blocks bounded by Weber, Ontario, Duke and College are mostly owned by various RC church organizations. That's probably more than $50M in real estate for this small chunk of DTK alone: for perspective, the RC church organizations (for the entire country) couldn't come up with $25M for residential school compensation.
RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - Lebronj23 - 05-30-2022
Does anyone know the acreage for the Charles Terminal? I reckon 2-3? I saw on Reddit someone said it would be over 50 mill for that plot
RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - tomh009 - 05-30-2022
(05-30-2022, 09:45 AM)Lebronj23 Wrote: Does anyone know the acreage for the Charles Terminal? I reckon 2-3? I saw on Reddit someone said it would be over 50 mill for that plot
The terminal itself (a regional property) is 2.56 acres; the city-owned parking lot is 0.35 acres.
I do think that $20M/acre would be a new record. Don't know whether that is realistic or not.
RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - ac3r - 05-30-2022
I think for a central downtown location like the old terminal it would fetch a pretty good price. Whether or not the region decides to sell it to a private developer remains to be seen, though. I hope they don't so we can turn it into a good regional project...or at the very least some sort of partnership so it could be both a public space with perhaps some residential and commercial space.
My ideal hope would be to have it become a public square (to expand Victoria Park, even though that's a City of Kitchener park), affordable housing and commercial area. We're in desperate need for affordable housing and they could easily build a couple nice towers there and a good public space to connect King, Gaukel and gateway to Victoria Park. There's probably almost zero chance the Region of Waterloo would ever do that, though.
RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - Lebronj23 - 05-30-2022
On the engage WR survey I believe it was mentioned by a regional employee they do plan on putting it up for tender to a developer with certain stipulations (based on the feedback received etc) that are required for the sale.
RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - tomh009 - 05-30-2022
(05-30-2022, 12:42 PM)ac3r Wrote: We're in desperate need for affordable housing and they could easily build a couple nice towers there (...)
We are, no doubt about that. But if you can sell the property for $50M, that will build a lot more units at a less expensive location.
RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - danbrotherston - 05-30-2022
(05-30-2022, 12:22 PM)tomh009 Wrote:(05-30-2022, 09:45 AM)Lebronj23 Wrote: Does anyone know the acreage for the Charles Terminal? I reckon 2-3? I saw on Reddit someone said it would be over 50 mill for that plot
The terminal itself (a regional property) is 2.56 acres; the city-owned parking lot is 0.35 acres.
I do think that $20M/acre would be a new record. Don't know whether that is realistic or not.
I'm not sure if it's realistic either.
But it's prime park realestate. I would still argue the land (at least some of it) has greater value to the public than it's mere dollar value.
RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - Chris - 05-30-2022
(05-30-2022, 02:29 PM)danbrotherston Wrote:(05-30-2022, 12:22 PM)tomh009 Wrote: The terminal itself (a regional property) is 2.56 acres; the city-owned parking lot is 0.35 acres.
I do think that $20M/acre would be a new record. Don't know whether that is realistic or not.
I'm not sure if it's realistic either.
But it's prime park realestate. I would still argue the land (at least some of it) has greater value to the public than it's mere dollar value.
I think many of us here are of the opinion that an expansion of Victoria Park or expansion/community centre is a great use of the land. I just doubt that the two councils have the foresight to do this over selling it off to the highest bidder.
RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - ac3r - 05-30-2022
If they stand to get 20 million per acre from it, then yeah they might end up unfortunately selling it because that's a good chunk of money. It'll depend how short sighted our regional council is.